SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

I have been thinking pretty hard about this for a few weeks, and I keep going back and forth between these two designs. I hope to use the boat to sail around Puget Sound and SE Alaska, and ideally trailer it to other places to cruise also. 

The pros for the dory in my mind:

Cheaper kit

Easier to build

Lighter so easier to trailer and shove around

can use an outboard

Guider Pros:

More substantial and heavier, so can stand up to wind and waves better

Roomier for stuff and sleeping

purpose designed for sailing in SE Alaska

 

Are there other things that people can think of that should inform my decision? Any opinions about these two boats you'd like to share? Thanks


7 replies:

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RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

Just my .0093 cents....

The rudder arrangement of the Guider might be an issue if frequent beach landings are part of your mission profile.  The drill there would be to douse the sail, raise the rudder, and row ashore.  Maybe a good approach regardless...beach landings under sail can be a bit dicey in any event.

Also in favor of the Southwester Dory is the divided rig.  My experience with a cat ketch rigged Sea Pearl 21 over 22 seasons left me with a real appreciation of the usefulness of the rig in long, narrow boats.  While not the best thing for upwind performance (the mizzen works in the backwind of the main, but is too large a percentage of the total sail area to overtrim and give up it's drive so that the main can be sheeted in more), it is a mighty handy rig for single handed sailing, especially in close quarters, and a good rig for carrying on in squally, gusty conditions.  The smaller sails, vs. comparable sail area in a single sail, are easier to manage with things get snotty.  That might be especially true for balanced lug sails like this.  Anyway, it works in a long, narrow, easily driven boat.  There wasn't a Catalina 22 on the lake who could get away from my Sea Pearl and me, upwind or down, and a lot of larger cruising boats on Lake Erie who wondered what the heck that little cat ketch with leeboards was, but they couldn't catch up within hailing distance reaching in a good breeze to call out, "What kind of a boat is that?" as so many folks did over those 22 seasons.

.....Michael

P.S.  Both The Guider and Southwester Dory are fine-looking, adventure-inducing boats after which I have lusted.  <;-)

RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

Another cogent post by Michael, thanks for that split rig plug. 

If memory serves, (always a dodgy proposition) John H. has drawn, or was planning to, a Yawl sailplan for the Guider. 

Cheers,

e

RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

 Yes, a cat yawl is a handy business, as well.  It works better than a similar sized, in terms of total sail area, cat ketch if the hull isn't so narrow and light, i.e., hulls more catboat like than than dory like.  It's just hard to get enough sail area in a cat ketch rig on a wider, heavier boat to get a decent sail area to displacement ratio--not enough length to work with, and you end up with short booms and masts taller than you'd like, trying to get enough sail area to drive the heavy thing.

Anyway, yes, I imagine a cat yawl Guider would be a good thing for a single hander.  On some points of sail, she could be trimmed to sail herself for a bit, giving the helmsman a hand or two to manage a sandwich, pour a mug of coffee, clean the salt mung off his sunglasses, etc., plus giving you some options for heaving to, a good thing for a single hander in heavy weather to give him a chance to collect his wits if things aren't going well.  John'd probably have to move the mainmast forward a bit, which might make more of an awkward reach from the cockpit, hard to say.

.....Michael

RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

   An alternate rig sounds interesting, sounds like it would be a pretty big alteration to the kit though. I do like the idea of two masts for hanging a tent. I saw on a different post mention of building a tent for the guider, and the pictures have a little fabric dodger in place. Are patterns for these accessories available does anyone know? Also, with these two boats, what's it like when swamped, or coming back from a capsize? Especially the guider looks like a lot of water to try to bail out, and there is also the picture of the guy standing on the centerboard to right the boat, but it doesn't look like it is coming back too fast. I doubt wether I could even climb up onto the center board honestly. 

RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

   Also, neither of these boats are self-bailing at all, right?

 

Merlin

RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

Merlin,

Correct, neither is self-bailing.

Seeing your concerns about bailing, discussion of shelter on the boat and the desirability of a boat that can sail in Fungus Corner and Alaskan waters turns my thoughts immediately to the Faering Cruiser. Not only did it sail in the same R2AK that the Guider did, Team Wee Free Men in Neptune's Bellows actually finished the entire race (probably because it was a 2-man team and they had a chance to switch watches and stay caught up on their sleep).

The Faering Cruiser is also very beachable. WIth the centerboard up and the ballast tanks empty I've successfully navigated mine in 6" of water. I routinely run it right up on mud and sand beaches. It's quite fast moving in a straight line and is reasonable to row. However, if you're going to be participating in races with lots of turns around buoys, you may want to also have a deeper racing rudder.

As you can see, there are at least 2 sail rig options. There's also lots of room, what with the forward storage compartment, the cabin and all the storage under the benches.

The SW Dory and the Guider look like really fun boats and they may in fact fit your program better, but I just wanted to let you know that there's a possible third option.

Good luck,

Laszlo

 

RE: SW Dory vs Guider for beach cruising

   I'd be looking at that faering  also . I imagine even in summer you'd have some cold weather and a warm dry cabin sounds pretty ice

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