Pigmented epoxy under glass

Hi, I’m in the process of building a Petrel Play SG. I’d really like to copy the look of Joey Schotts black Petrel Play. From reading his blog it seems he stained the panels with Behlen Solar Lux before glassing. I’ve tried looking for the same wood stain/dye in the uk. It it’s no longer available due to the high VOC (I believe). I’ve not found another black stain that I’m comfortable taking a gamble with as I don’t want the boat delaminating. My current plan which I’ve tested out on a scrap of ply is to roller on two coats of black pigmented epoxy directly onto the ply, allowing it to cure and sanding prior to glassing. Can anyone foresee a problem with this approach? I’d really like to have the colour under the glass as it gives a beautiful deep finish and a colour coat that’s not easily scratched off. I don’t want to paint the finished boat. Advice appreciated!

 

 


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RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

   I have worked with pigmented epoxy before and as long as the pigment is compatible with the epoxy I see no issues if you are happy with the results of a test. I would note that black can get very hot and when you build black, keeping the boat out of dire t sunlight like one the top if a car is something to be mindful of. Can you share what pigment you will be using? Also remember that you will still need UV protection so a varnush or other coating is still needed H

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

   fwiw. I would also try doing the glossing with the epoxy as apposed to color below the glass. When I have worked with pigment other than stain, I have not precoated if I am comfortable that I can get the cosmetic result I a.m looki g for in one step. The varnish or clear coat will give you the sense of shine

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

Hello Pedro.  First, I have a S&G Petrel Play and absolutely love it.  The only negative is that it may be a bit tight if you are a bigger guy.  As a side note, Nick recently posted in one of the FB groups that he is working on a Petrel Play varient for larger guys.

Now, regarding the stain.  I assume that you have read this artical on staining your boat:   https://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/finishing-tips/staining-your-kayak.html

The Behlin stain mentioned in the artical is now sold as Mohawk Ultra Penetrating Stain.  If you cannot find that brand, any water or alcohol based stain SHOULD work with epoxy, but I would call the help line for whatever epoxy you are using and get their advice.  Water/alcohol based stain should be readily available because they do not have VOC.

Unless you want to hide the wood grain, I would advise against using a stain in your epoxy.  Stain on the wood will highlight the wood grain where a stain in the epoxy will be partually opaque and hide the wood grain.

If you are looking for that solid black gloss look, then you would be better off painting the boat black.  I know that you said you did not want to do that, but it is easy and you can get very professional looking results using the roll and tip method.  I have used one part polyurethane on two kayaks and a sailboat and all look GREAT!  

Agree with hspira's comments regarding a black boat if you live in a hot climate.  I live in Florida and can't even pick up my black carbon fiber paddle if I leave it sitting in the sun.

Picture of my PP below:

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

Thanks hspira and Mark, some good points I’ll need to consider. I don’t think heat will be too much of an issue here. I’m in Cornwall in the UK. It never really gets very hot.

I would be happy to hide the grain on this boat. A deep gloss jet black look is what I’m after. It may be partly to hide some of my woodwork clangers! If it’s too risky I’ll go for a varnish finish and I’m sure I’d be happy enough with it.

The pigment I have was recommended to me by another builder and is from East Coast Fibreglass supplies in the uk.

Mark, yours looks great. How are you finding the boats holding out against regular use? I’ve seen photos of yours on the guillemot site I think(?).

I think I should be alright size wise as I’m 5’8” and 150lbs. 

Thanks,

Pete

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

Hey Peter, I am about the same size as you (5'7"/150#), you will fit nicely in the PP.

While you are building, I would seriously consider adding a skeg.  The boat does not absolutely have to have one, but it will give you much more control, especially at slow speeds.

The boat has held up very well.  The picture above, and the one below where taken after four+ years of hard usage.  I retrofitted a skeg, put a couple fresh coats of varnish on it and it looked like new.  The boat is now six years old and still doing well, but almost time for another varnish touch up.

I went with a single layer of 4oz glass.  If you are playing in rocks, I'd consider a second layer on the hull.

As I said above, if you really want it high gloss black, I would roll and tip a good mono paint.  The picture below is my skiff which I painted with Epifanes Mono.  If you look closely, you can see just how glossy it is.  Note the reflection of the trailer fender.  One trick for a painted boat is to use tinted epoxy for the fill coats over the glass.  Black tinted epoxy will make scratches in the black paint nearly invisible.

   

 

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

   Hi Peter I wanted to add a comment on how these boats hold up. The answer is very well and I still have a boat in my fleet that is over 20 years old now but looks pretty much new. I think the key things for making them hold up are to make sure to to build properly so there is no exposed wood anywhere, always clean and store dry (and store away from the sun) and address any serious damage quickly. Rubstrips (which you see in mark's picture) are important in my view for making any kayak hold up. That said, these boats are not plastic boats and have limited abrasion resistance so if you use them roughly in a way that causes damage a lot (see my notes above) you will be doing. a lot of touch up during the season About once every 4 to 8 years depending on use, you will need to refinish. Other wise they just keep on going H

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

Well it’s good to know they aren’t too fragile. I take great care of my boats when launching and landing. I always get in or out with the boat afloat. The only problem is I’m very fond of exploring the rocks around the coast here. Better keep plenty of materials in stock!

Mark, can I pick your brains regarding the hatches please? I’m building from plans rather than kit and I’m sure that despite carefully glueing the plans to the ply and hand cutting as accurately as I can that there will be some errors/discrepancies. So far both the hull and deck have fitted together extremely well with very few visible gaps. I’m now at the stage of fitting the hatch recesses and finding it necessary to alter the rear deck profile to get the rear recess in without too much strain on the panels. Did you build from a kit and if so how tight a fit were the hatch recesses in the deck?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

Sorry Peter, it has been over six years since I built that boat and don't remember much except that the hatch recesses were a PITA.  I do remember that neither recess assembly wanted to be flat as seen in the picture.  I ended up clamping the rigid plastic hatch rim to the recess to hold them flat while I stitched it all together.

   

RE: Pigmented epoxy under glass

Thanks Mark, “PITA” sums it up nicely!   

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