Bottom Paint

I was hesitant to post this, as it is a subject that has been ran through the mill a number of times.  I will try to be as specific as possible with background info . . . 

QUESTIONS: What bottom paint is recommended for freshwater and do I really need it?

Boat:  nearly finished Skerry

Lake: Chippewa Flowage/Northern Wisconsin.  Water temps can reach 80s in late summer.  Very fertile water.  

Main concern: protecting the hull of the boat.  Also, slime/algae bloom can be a real problem in our channel during late summer.

Boat Usage:  mainly row trolling.  Some sailing.  The most the boat would remain in the water is two weeks.  When I am not "at the lake" it will stored outside on sawhorses (upside down and covered to protect from pine sap).  Stored indoors during winter months.

Top paint: Brightsides Poly with Interlux Pre-Kote

Current Conditions:  The entire hull has three coats epoxy and has been sanded fair and smooth.  I am current prepping the interior for Interlux Schooner.

I have read quite a bit on blogs as well as Interlux and Petit sites and am still not really sure what I need.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

 


16 replies:

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RE: Bottom Paint

Backinwisco,

Bottom paint is pretty expensive stuff and any bottom paint that can handle the dry time on the sawhorses will be even more expensive.  IMHO, if the boat won't be in the water more than 2 weeks at a time, you don't need bottom paint.  You'll probably need to scrub the bottom with a stiff brush each time you haul it because there will be some algae/slime growth.  Don't leave algae/slime to dry out on the bottom---it can get incredibly hard to remove.

I'm assuming that the bottom will be painted with Brightsides as well.  It's pretty durable stuff.  Be advised that Interlux doesn't recommend Brightsides below the waterline, but I've never known of any problems from immersion for two weeks or less.  If anyone else has, please speak up.

Cheers,

Dick

RE: Bottom Paint

My experience with Brightsides in wet locations has been poor.  Five years ago I repainted the interior of my Cape Dory (I know, not a wooden boat - but it has teak seats - does that count?).  I was cautioned by members of the Cape Dory Association that Brightsides should not be used in wet locations.  I went ahead anyway and now have flaking in a section of the sole that does not drain well.  

When I finish my Peeler I will address this problem and I am leaning towards Kiwi Grip.  

In regard to your original question, I would use a hard bottom paint (Petit makes a waterborne - Neptune - that I will be using as the signal coat on my Peeler).  I bought a quart from Defender for $40 - Brightsides is $36.

RE: Bottom Paint

My Peeler is a year old and the Brightsides has held up beautifully, inside and out, top to bottom.  In the 1970s I had a Cape Dory Typhoon and I cannot imagine any part of it that I would have applied paint to (other than anti-fouling bottom paint). Teak, because of the oils in it, does not hold paint well and if gelcoat has broken down its unlikely that many paints would do better.  If we're talking about the bilge, that's another place not to use topsides paint.

http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/finishing-tips/painting_polyurethanes.html is a good thing to read.

Cheers

RE: Bottom Paint

Bottom paint for two weeks? ............ not a chance.  Not in salt or fresh.  Just use it during those two weeks. If you need to brush it by swimming or beaching the hull and using a wet stiff bristle brush.  It is harder for the growth to adhere in moving water so you have to use it frequently.  Isn't that the point of having it?

 

Of course I'm thinking it sounds like your boat spends too much time not being used.    

RE: Bottom Paint

   

RE: Bottom Paint

 I may have been unclear in my earlier post.

I think Brightsides is great and it has held up well in all places that are not persistently wet.  My Cape Dory Typhoon is the Day Sailer model - 12' of cockpit and not self draining.  It is supposed to drain into the bildge, but there is a spot forward of the mast step that never drains. After every rain there is ~1 pint of water covering a few square feet - this is where the Brightsides failed after two years (it looked good after one year).  All other parts of the cockpit look the same today as when first applied.  

As to your opinion that no part of a 30 year old fiberglass boat should be painted  other than the bottom - that is your opinion and you can treat your boats as you wish.

I was warned by other CD owners that Brightsides would fail when persistently wet - and it did.  When I have time and the boat is out of the water I will apply something else to the sole - I am leaning towards Kiwi Grip.

I am about to start painting my Peeler, and I am concerned about using Brightsides for the sole.  Does your boat live on a trailer with the drain plug pulled?  Mine will spend 8 months of the year in the water. Although I will have a bildge bump there will always be some water.

Finally in regard to the original question.  I don't think that AF paint is needed for two week exposures to fresh water.  I do believe that Brightsides will fail under those conditions. My suggestion of a hard bottom paint is based on its durability.

RE: Bottom Paint

Jeff,

Your assumption is correct, my Peeler does live on its trailer when it's not in the water.  It does not have a cover (except in the winter) so it does collect about an half inch of water against the inside of the transom and against the bulkheads.  The transom drain takes care of draining anything more.  There has been no breakdown of the Brightsides.

The entire interior of the boat was painted with Brightsides (mixed with Interlux flattening agent) over epoxy and Pre-Kote (the vast majority of which was sanded off).  The seat tops and sole had Interlux non-skid additive added to the final coat (http://www.clcboats.com/forum/clcforum/thread/28331.html).

Here's a picture of the boat: http://cumulus.aunt-mary.net/images/peeler/completed.jpg.

Regards,

Dick

BTW:  There are epoxy-based paints intended to cover deteriorating gelcoat.  I don't think one-part polyurethanes are up to the job.

RE: Bottom Paint

   I knew I wanted bottom paint on my NE Dory because I knew it would be sitting on the shore of lakes, or at a dock, for longer periods that what I heard people say Brightsides might blister.  I went the Petit Vivid route on the bottom after reading many reviews and talking to builders, and hearing how well Vivid color holds up, plus only Petit Vivid has a red bottom paint (what I wanted) that would hold its color. (Used Brightsides off white/Schooner varnish topsides)  I've had keel boats that require bottom paint and on those tried different brands of bottom paint, and they all turned somewhat chalky.  Since my dory was going to be upside down on my car for 2 months going to, and coming home from Maine, I wanted a bottom paint that builders claimed did not chalk up as much.  I can advise the Petit Vivid held up great with almost no chalking.  It is what I heard called a "hard" finish.   Here is the original application:

 https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/b2QRkWHgvdSKiDQWJh7ZlDFolq1y-t7pqfyiNmzJPv8?feat=directlink

Due to damage and scratches last summer, this Winter I gave the dory a fresh bottom of Petit Vivid red again, slight sanding and 4 more coats.  If I hadn't made all the scratches, it would not have needed a bottom job.  One Quart does 4 coats on a dory.  The dory is again upside down on my car and we are towing it to Port Townsend WA for the summer and I expect that it will hold up at least as well as last summer.  Also, Petit customer service is excellent, with paint experts manning the phones.

Curt 

RE: Bottom Paint

Backinwisco,

If you have any concerns at all, perhaps Moonchaser's solution is the best compromise.

Cheers,

Dick

RE: Bottom Paint

Jeff,

Maybe this is a decent option for your Typhoon.  Nice sailing boat.  I traded up for a Pacific Seacraft Flicka but remember the Typhoon fondly.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=113&familyName=Interlux+InterProtect+2000E+Epoxy+Primer

Keep sailing,

Dick

RE: Bottom Paint

   Thanks so much for everyone's replies.  I believe I will go with Moonchaser's advice with the Petit Vivid.

Now, how do I determine the waterline of the Skerry?

Thanks Again

RE: Bottom Paint

Once it's completely assembled and has a good epoxy coat, it's safe to put into the water, even unpainted. So before you paint or prime it, put it into shallow water (a large wading pool or duck pond is fine), load it with the max load you're planning on putting into it and walk around the boat marking the waterline.

Or, go with what the plans show as the design waterline (if they do).

Or, pick something that looks plausible and good.

Have fun,

Laszlo

 

RE: Bottom Paint

áááBackinwisco....I bought an inexpensive self leveling laser and,after I did what Laszlo did,I applied 3M fine line tape along the laser line... I'm on a cell phone right now. and will post some better info when I get on a regular PC. Curt

RE: Bottom Paint

   Backinwisco......I really liked how the laser helped and not only did it help to line up the 3M fine line tape, but I also used the laser line to freehand paint the hull with the Brightsides and paint just a bit into the area where the bottom paint will be.

Hope this link works...then 29 pictures "to the right", some pictures not about laser/bottom paint but 29 pics total do encompase all the bottom paint pics, and hope the captions come out.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/r1VbHJ8IWafFtrMkpmRhuDFolq1y-t7pqfyiNmzJPv8?feat=directlink

Hope this helps...Curt

RE: Bottom Paint

   OK, one more thought...I used two methods to find the water line...first exactly like Laszlo said and dropped it in our local river with my Wife in the middle of the boat to simulate finished weight with sail gear, then with a dry sharpie, marked the bow, sterrn, and midship where the water came.  Then I also made three marks, bow, stern, midship, based on the best I could tell from the CLC instruction drawing...then made marks between those two sets which were within a quarter inch, then made 3 marks about 1" ABOVE those marks so that the bottom paint comes slightly above the waterline when the boat with gear is sitting at a dock...then lined the laser up on those 3 marks...I saw all these ideas in other builder's posts and professionals that shared their methods...tell us how it goes!!  

Curt..

RE: Bottom Paint

   Been following this post. Two weeks in the water then wipe down the hull, no need for anti fouling paint.  Why not use the graphite/epoxy mix on the bottom?  It's tough as nails, slick as grease and won't stain. 

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