Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Folks, when fiberglassing the internal hull to deck seam on the Ox II, the CLC recommendation is to roll the fg seam strip, wet it then align over the seam, unrolling the wetted roll with the recomended brush-head tool. I found that did not work well on several attempts becahse you cannot control the unrolling dynamics with angled sheer and hull sections (when shell is on it's side). The unrolling tends to walk itself up one side or the other and wind around itslef and create a tangle blob way in the shell volume; bow or stern end. HTe folks doing htis mor than once or twice probably figured out how to make it work but for most folks makning this shell it's a first time or at least a forts time with this sort of narrlw inaccesible seam. I thnk the failure/frustration rate is very high. I came up with a better way that doesn't roll the fg seam strip but rather folds it back and forth over itself like a ribbon in 3-4" lengths. In addition, you pick the half length fold to insert a paint roller (3-4" wide) stem, that is, the naked bent bar that a roller would slide onto, but not with a roller. This bent bar acts like a hook and allows you to pull or deploy the ribbon out as you push it forward along the seam you're covering. This avoids any walking issues with a rollout. In additionl the bent roller bar can be used to reposition the seam as you retract it by sliding the hook like shape under the seam and adhjusting it over the seam. I just finishde the longer seam from the cockpiut to the bow and it worked perfectly. I'll try attaching some photos.


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RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Dan when I started reading your post, from your description of the tricky operation described I got the exact same idea you soon explained to get past the inevitable frustration! Sounds like a viable technique for those 'beyond human arm's length' challenges!

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

spclark, i'm setup on the other side to repat this process,decided to wait until tomorrow so that i get all the mess done in one shot. I'd been doing one seam per evening but too many glove and brush changes....i can't seem to post photos though, seems the allowable pixels are way too limited for any modern hi def smart phone photos.  

I'm also repurposing a few telescopting poles from dusters and painting extensions i've accumlated over the years. They work well with some ty wraps or short screws through the rods, and i've also used them for sanding along these long seams, wiping w/ IPA and then for the fg applications. The extensions are perfect for the lenghts needed. 

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Pics can't be uploaded for hosting / display here directly, they need first to be uploaded to a suitable server / sharing service that then provides a link you can use to bring your images into the display of a post here. Storing and hosting image files adds considerable management overhead to the running of a forum.

I had some limited success with this in early attempts; there's info here somewhere about the process... perhaps another contributor will bring it to your attention.

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

This LINK will explain things pretty well. Too, pay attention to the last item in the Forum Guidelines (linked above) regarding image display width in pixels.

I've seen images posted here display initially on my iPhone as just a strip of a larger image then upon coming back again they display in their full content. Not sure how that works but interesting nonetheless.

 

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Here's a photo of the fg seam strip furling and where the roller tool is used to unfurl, this is at the halfway point of the length ofhte strip.

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Here's the completed seam after unfurling and epoxied; this is the forward seam, this ribbon unfurled in one shot...

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

 Spclark, fyi, I was able to post these photos by opeing google photos, signing in and uploading photos to the google photo site then simply right clicking and copy/ paste directly into the forum. I think google photos is essentially a photo hosting site per the process referecned in your post but allowed one step copy and paste so even easier. Thanks for the guidance.

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

You're welcome Dan.

Yet, even when viewing this forum in Google's Chrome browser and logged into my Google account, I can't see your images; if I click on 'em I get a new window with a circled - sign in the center. 

Similar in Apple's Safari: "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later." Apple has iCloud storage, works in a fashion as does Google though getting an embeddable link may be different.

So there's more to getting images to become viewable here than a number of logged-in forumites can easily fathom.

(Be super nice were an <edit> button to be enabled here that would allow posters to test-run stuff like this... be a simple fix to an inelegant speedbump.)

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

This is of particular interest to me because I am about to order and build an Oxford II. I would really apprecaite any effort to make the images publicly viewable as I will be embarking on this process in a few weeks.  Mike

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

 Thanks folks, too bad, wanst aware you stiull cant see the photos. 

mrc, send me your email and i'll send photos of the shell build and the seam technique i mentioned in this recent post. I also forwarded the recommdation to CLC, but referenced this post for photos so maybe they havne't seen it yet either....

spclark; i see that the photos are also now gone from my post too but were there for awhile right after i posted them. Maybe CLC removed for being too large? it definitely exceeded the pixel count.

hope that link idea works....photos are maybe the best vehicle for explaining and sharing build status and ideas? maybe? hello CLC?

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

I agree Dan, and it's a shame too given the "picture's worth a thousand words" homily so often heard.

And it's not that a member can't post images, it's simply that the way to add image links is so tricky it seems most users find it frustrating enough not to bother.

I'm in awe of how a forum run by FyneBoatKits, a UK licensee of CLC designs, allows members to post images there. It simply works - 100% of the time - making it very easy to illustrate methods involved in assembling various kits they provide.

One doesn't even have to be a member to read post & view pics either, but if you want to post you have to register of course! You may want to consider registering there yourself Dan! Other Oxford II builders've posted pics there....

 

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Yeah, the Google photos thing vexes me.  I've been able to use the photo button with stuff in my Dropbox, but even then I have to edit the sharing links Dropbox provides to get it to work here.  Sadly, the instructions themselves are now "broken" because the images were on TinyPics, which is now defunct, so you can't see the examples anymore.

Haven't yet figured out how to get Google photos to work with the forum photo button.  You can put in a link, like so:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BTLkmeWPH4wS6Yot8

...which has permissions for anyone to view, using the Google photos sharing while viewing the photo.  (That's a photo of our Passagemaker not an Oxford, of course.)

We've drifted off topic here with all of this photo stuff, but maybe that'll help Dan at least post links to the photos which we'll be able to see.

While we're off topic, I might beg your further indulgence by mention that the photo in that link above is currently entered in the monthly CLC photo contest here:

https://www.clcboats.com/voting

...if you want to see the competition.  I try to look at this each month and throw in my two cents' worth.  If any of you aren't previously aware of this, you might help CLC out by submitting photos of your own boats.  How do think they get all those pictures to put in the individual boat galleries?  Messing about with boat photos might actually be "half so much fun as messing about in boats." <;-)

Dan, I hope you'll try your Google photos as links.  We really do want to see 'em.  Sorry I couldn't figure out how to make that work with the photo button.

.....Michael

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Thanks Michael, I'm able to copy this link to my google photos but it doens't llok tob e active.....   

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bszryZYhLzk3EMjb8

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

   Ok that did work! Here you can see the roller tool and furing method. The seam photos had a work LED loght on it so there's some color contrast, without the light it looks clear. 

Ok, looks liek we may have solved this.....will send a few more after the floor is done....

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

   Passagemaker looks beautiful....nice work...

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Yeah, that worked.  Thanks for hanging in there, Dan.  I ought to have mentioned that you can share an album as well as individual photos, but looks like you figured that out.

Anyway, now that I've seen your photos, I understand the challenge perfectly and your solution seems clear as a bell.  "A picture is worth...."

I am more of a boatwrong than a boatwright, and our Passagemaker is proof that just about anyone with a dedicated space for the duration of the project (always more time than you think), patience, persistence, good family support, a few friends to help, a few basic tools, and the ability to read instructions over and over again until they finally make sense can get a good looking boat out of a CLC kit--even if his fingers only look like fingers but are, in fact, merely spare thumbs.  <;-)

.....Michael

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Yep that works, I can see your images now too. I was reluctant to give Google full access to my photos storage but I suppose there's no risk unless I choose to put links up on-line. Nothing there to compromise anything of a sensitive nature anyway.

You both do good work! Thanks for sharing some of your experience.

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Folks, I finished the remaining deck to hull fg seaam installation using the unfurling method and it worked very well so I think its a keeper. I can also report that when you unfurl to the halfway point the wetted seam is too sticky with half the length still stuck ontop of the base seam. I had to peel up the top side of the seam and lay it up over the extension rod i used so that there wasn't any fg wetted seam laying on top of itself. I think that's what made it hard to simply push the roller bar and unfurl the rest of the seam. I'll try another illustrative photo but the bottom line is by lifting the seam atop the extension pole I could easily push the rest of the seam all the way to the end. Then I used a ridged small fg metal roller to even out the wetted seam and then a few wipes with the wetted brush tool and it was pretty easy.

Second, with the boat on it's side so that the wetted fg seam was flat/horizontal i noticed that blobs of epoxy dripped through the imperfect stitch glued seam but wasn't aware when it occured so they hardened into these unsightly bumps shown in the attadhed photo. When I did the second side today i knew to keep wiping the underside of the joint until the epoxy was somewhat set. I left and returned a few hours later and there were noticably fewer bumps and drip throughs, so remember that.

How I dealt with the hardened epoxy drip through bumps; I rotated the hull with the seam i wanted to work facing up so i could work the entire lentgth. I used a small rasp to wear down the bumps whiich was ok but for the larger bumps the rasping was a bit jerky and jarring.

I switched to a small hand plane and after adjusting the blade it was pretty easy and rewarding to shave these bumps down. I intermittently rasped stubborn bumps and finished with the plane. Did both sides this way and it worked well, so the plane was a better way to deal with it, rapsing only whne really needed for tougher bumps

So now the boat is back flat on it's hull so i can  work the inside. More to come...

  https://photos.app.goo.gl/TzfW4ZdbrGQGJusg7

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Bus in photo dont show the height too well, bad angle but they were about 1/8 to 1/4 domed blobs....requiredplaning and rasping....

some were shallow longer ridges, < 1/8". easier to plane down. 

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Glad your project is progressing Dan, it's gratifying to see something of this nature take shape!

My experience with stitch'n'glue so far hasn't lent itself much use of traditional rasps. Those epoxy bumps & dribbles are mighty tough, yield to block plane properly tuned & applied but more often - like ~ 90% more often - I've reached for a ShintoRasp thing I bought decades ago when a'building my first boat.

A new one joined it during my Waterlust's build, owing to the eventual dulling of the teeth on that first one after some 50 years' employment. I recommend with vigor having one handy for anyone messing about with boats, wood & epoxy.

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

 spclark, that rasp looks like the right tool, will pick one up...thanks.

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Ok, some progress on the Ox II, now she's moving along daily....s/b done in about 10 days...

Here's the seat stringers installed and epoxied;

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CcnMKRfgzsV8pbD58

Seat floor installed, two views. THis was hte dry ift, it'snow glued and epoxied in place;

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yM9M8SFaBYYSGBRUA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xgka6GpGgQLKgXXGA

Next steps are to add the food pads, interiro filets, fiberglass the floor and then install comings....stifffeners and doublers too then ready for hull and deck glass....

RE: Oxford II shell; inaccessible hull-deck seam, new process discovered

Floor, keel stiffener and and rear bulkehd installed, one closer up and one overall view looking aft; next step doublers, then filleting lots of seams, then glassing the floor....

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kuXoq9NBksysNHq5A

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2Kkfq31jt3V5uftF8

 

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