Is this a problem that needs attention?

After a too long pause in the building of my NED, I am now ready to complete the boat.  It has sat in a garage for most of that time, but the last four months she has been outside covered with a tarp.  I now notice several sections that before the extended storage was in good condition, but now appear to be 'issues.'  I come to the forum for the expertise that is so readily given as to what may be the issue, and any suggestions on how to proceed.  See photos.  Again before the layup this area looked good and did so for months.  I live in Florida and the four months she sat covered outside were Jan through April, not so hot and not very humid that time of year.


17 replies:

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RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

its a bit hard to tell based on the picture if it is a surface issue or something below the surface.

that said, if you take a cloth wet with denatured alcohold and rub it over the space., if the problem 'disappears' then it is on the surface.....and you can just go on and re-start your work.

if it doesn't disappear, than whatever the problem is, it is below the epoxy and at the wood/epoxy interface.  in that case, the white area may need to be pulled off and redone.

but why not do the alcohol test first....and let us know what you find.

h

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

Hi,

From the photos it seems like a large surface where the weave was not filled with epoxy as much as the larger "shiny" surfaces.  Do you have any photos of the surface from before the storage?

Mark

 

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   This is what happens when Epoxy is starting to exotherm in a cup. The cloth did'nt soak up the epoxy enough to fill in the weave. Never use warm Epoxy in your cup, mix up less and dump it all on your cloth and move on. Nothing will fix this, sand down and redo or paint it.

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   Happy Hooker, the question I have is why did this do this after the boat sat for almost a year without this happening?  It was in my garage and there was no indication of this.  Only after I stored it outside covered did this happen.  I know the first reaction will be for many to say, 'well you did not see it before but it was there' and I can assure you it was not?  Secondly, there is only one coat of epoxy on the bottom and some of the areas with a drip or run have been sanded down and then another coat of epoxy will be applied.  Should I simply apply a second coat?  The hull will be painted both inside and out?

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   No one else with an opinion or suggestion??

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

Okay, I'm going out on a limb here....

Looking as closely as I can at the photographs, I'm going to profer a hopeful guess that the epoxy starvation is on the surface, not between the glass and the plywood.  As best I can tell, it looks like the epoxy may have soaked into the wood in the affected areas, pulling it down through the weave, leaving the surface of the weave a bit short.  There may be a bit of optimism mixed in with that hope because it looks like the white-ish parts are standing proud.  It may have looked okay when the epoxy was still green, but given some time, a bit of friction with the covers, etc., the tops of the proud spots could begin to show the "snow on the mountaintops" effect I think I'm seeing.  The "valleys" between look like they might have a workable bond with the wood below.

If it was mine, I'd pray it up, maybe carefully rough it up some with bronze wool, give it a good vacuuming with a clean duster head, hit it a lick with some denatured alcohol on a reasonably lint-free rag, mix up some epoxy (being extra careful with the mix--clean your pumps if you haven't used 'em for a while or mark your container for the proper proportions as a check on counting the pump strokes), and see if another coat fills the weave better.

May the Lord bless you with a healing....<;-)

.....Michael

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   Thanks...I noticed on some other spots on the hull [not where the glass is but on the sides] the epoxy has soaked into the wood.   Where this specific issue is, the glass appears to be firmly attached to the substrate wood and no voids or air pockets are visible, so I agree with Michael that the wood soaked up some and the friction of the cover may have helped as well.  There is only one coat on the hull so I will apply another.  In the end the boat will be painted.

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

Sort of the old question as to whether 'tis nobler to precoat with epoxy before applying fiberglass or to bear the slings and arrows of having the epoxy soak into the un-pre-treated plywood beneath the glass and potentially starve the glass.  The former choice, at least in theory, would reduce the chances of the fiberglass being sucked dry while you ain't lookin'.  The later choice, at least in theory, would yield a better bond between glass and plywood.

If memory serves, the PMD manual instructed us to leave un-coated the faces of the planks to be fiberglased, which I think we did.  As it was a project accomplished without the stress of either Gantt or PERT charts, I seem to recall that I spent a good bit of time hanging about after the initial fiberglass applications squeegeeing in additional epoxy where it looked like it might be needed, and then walking around slowly keeping a sharp out for starved areas, ready to mix up a quick batch after the initial batch had kicked beyond squeegeeability.

To pre, or not to pre, that is the question....

.....Michael

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   Gramps, the interesting thing about this is that this 'starvation' whereby the epoxy soaked into the glass did not happen quickly and in fact took several months at the minimum, which is a mystery to me.  I did have the boat wrapped up pretty good with a plastic tarp stored 'hull-up' and could i have created a rough crude vacumn bagging environment, where over time -3 months - with the heat and humidity of Florida it slowly sucked the epoxy into the substrate???  The more I think about this the more I am inclinded to belive that may be the answer. As there is some expoxy starvation on areas along the sides where no glass is applied, that was not there prior to the storage. 

Here are 2 pictures of the boat months after the epoxy was applied and you can see a uniform shine.  The other pictures below this post are of sections without any glass and obvious epoxy starvation.

Almost a year after application but before covered storage

 

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   After storage ...

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

Well, I said I was out on a limb...sawing it off with my own guesswork, maybe, as I've no personal experience to go on here.  <;-)

In those last two photos looking along the topside planks, are those big water droplets on the surface?  Some other kind of irregularity?  Do the whiteish spots look less leprous if you wet 'em down with alcohol as hspira suggested above?

In the immortal words of the King of Siam in the movie The King and I: "It is a puzzlement."

Whether it's post-application starvation made to look worse by moisture (working into the less thoroughly epoxied areas) and time...or gremlins or space aliens or evil spirits lurking in your workshop (know a good exorcist?)...I'm still thinkin'...well, mostly guessin'...the next step is to clean up the surface, give it a coat of epoxy, and see what happens.  If the leprosy is cured, thank the Lord for His Tender Mercies and move on.  If not...well think on what wonderful exercise sanding is!

.....Michael

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

That last post was me.  I keep forgetting the login times out while you're composing a response if you dither about with it too long.

.....Michael

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   yea....the boat is outside now and it was raining when i took the photos.  And the whitish spots are areas previoulsy well soaked with epoxy and now there is none, which makes me believe those area absorded the epoxy more than others during the storage.

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

In my experience epoxy is marvelously forgiving stuff. I think you could gently sand the entire hull, apply a couple of coats of epoxy ( enough create an impermeable coating), and then move on to your primer and paint.

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

In my experience epoxy is marvelously forgiving stuff. I think you could gently sand the entire hull, apply a couple of coats of epoxy ( enough create an impermeable coating), and then move on to your primer and paint.

RE: Is this a problem that needs attention?

   Is the other side sealed? This looks like glass applied to moving/exotherming wood. Epoxy doesn’t like the wood to go through humidity changes...

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