Guider - Question about the Rudder and Beaching

I'm really intrigued by the The Guider and might have to make that my next boat build but was wondering with the way the rudder is set on it can the Guider be beached? How well would it work in shallower waters like the SW Florida and the Florida Keys areas?

I really love the looks of the design but can't help to think the way it hangs below it's really susceptible to being damaged. I was going to go with a different design from either Welsford (Walkabout or Navigator) or Oughtred (Arctic/Sooty Tern), or even a Core Sound 17, but the more and more I look at the Guider the more I love the lines and the purpose of the design. 

Could the rudder be modified to better handle beaching or shallow water? Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

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RE: Guider - Question about the Rudder and Beaching

In my own experience with sailing boats right up onto the beach over the years, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to handle this is...don't do it.  If the boat can be rowed, is shaped to take the ground readily, and the surf isn't getting up, the best thing to do is douse the sails, raise all the fins, and gently row in.  If any of the above are not true, best to anchor off and wade in.

A shallower rudder, with an endplate, mounted on a skeg might work, but you ought to consult with somebody at CLC about that before taking the chance.


RE: Guider - Question about the Rudder and Beaching

Hey Sailrat,

That rudder is perfect for beaching. I had one like that on my schooner and beaching was effortless, as far as the rudder was concerned (now the 100 lb drop keel was another story).

The rudder fits down through the slot for normal use. If you're running before the wind to come ashore, you've already pulled up the centerboard, so you're steering in with the rudder and the sheet. As you get close to the beach, you just reach over (without getting up, without having to hang over the back of the boat, without even letting go of the sheet) and just pull it up with one hand. After you get used to your boat you don't even have to look so you can keep your eyes on where you're going. Once the boat hits sand, just let go the sheet and you've landed.

I built my schooner rudder so that it would float out of the well and used a bungee to hold it in place. When I wanted to raise it, I just released the catch and the rudder automatically popped up for an easy one-handed grab.

As far as shallow water, any water that's too shallow for your rudder is already too shallow for the centerboard and therefore too shallow for sailing at any angle other than dead before the wind, so you'll be rowing at that point. In that case, again just pop the rudder out until it's time to sail.

That kind of rudder is my favorite of all and has given me the least trouble of all the types I've used.



RE: Guider - Question about the Rudder and Beaching

Gramps got there before I finished typing so I missed his reply.

He raises a good point about rowing in. That's certainly gentler unless you're landing on sand, silt or mud and even sand will eventually remove your bottom paint.

My Faering Cruiser has a shallow rudder with an end plate, just as he describes, and it does indeed work well for beaching on a soft shore and navigating shallow waters. I've rowed the FC in 6 inches of water to beat a falling tide so I could get home that morning instead of having to wait for the evening tide to sail in, so it's definitely a tried-and-true solution. But I'd still prefer a rudder like the Guider's if I could accommodate one.



RE: Guider - Question about the Rudder and Beaching

   Thank you, I wasn't completely sure how the rudder worked on The Guider and then did a little more research later lastnight and watched a few videos posted on YouTube by Gavin Watson and his Guider build and see how the whole unit lifts out. For some reason I had it stuck in my mind that it was hanging below as a fixed rudder and just needed someone to confirm it lifts out. 

And I completely agree with the not sailing onto the beach and just rowing or coasting under control instead. I just wanted it to be able to be pulled up onto the beach and have the ability to run in shallower water. 

I'm working on a NE Dory for entry into the Everglades Challenge next year (2023) and was looking for something maybe a little more substantial for the following years so that is why I'm looking at the Guider for my next build. The NE Dory was my pick now because it's a fast and easy to build and lightweight to deal with in the race, and for my own piece of mind I had to pick something and get off my toosh and stop procrastinating and not do the race. If I picked one of the harder builds I've looked at initially I was afraid it would turn into a show piece and consume a lot of time and I would never enter the EC or maybe not want to drag it thru the race. I also wasn't sure if my first or second entry ino the EC would be solo or with a teammate and wanted to make sure I had a sailboat I could handle myself. For the later entries that I hope to continue doing the EC I hope it will be with a teammate (best friend or daughter) so a slightly larger boat is planned. The Guider might be too large for the EC based on it's weight posted, but I also want something for doing The North Channel and Maine Island Trail later in. 

Thanks for the help so far. Ed


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