Hi Richard, 

i think i get it. 

i started with dinghy sailing in college, worked my way up to owning a soling and then a J22 when i was a young-without-children adult, had a family and moved up to a C&C 36 for a number of years....and then moved back down (with some overlap) to a J80, then an Ideal 18 before i left keelboat ownership (when i moved away from the water) and have now been kayaking and kayak building for  years.   fwiw, i still do a lot of keel boat sailing on bigger boats but as a valued crew member with a couple of owners who i know well and they are happy to have me on their cruises for the companionship and another set of experienced hands and i am totally happy to not be a big boat owner anymore.  i also do a bareboat cruise almost every year to some international destination with a 50 foot sailboat and some really reliable nice, skilled sailors.

so here are my thoughts on the matter.  as you change, don't be afraid to change the boat or change the arrangment.  if its not bringing you joy, make a change, its ok. 

big boats are a lot of work and time committment.  and sometimes there are period in your life where it works and makes you happy....and then there are other times where you want to be doing something else.  sometimes you can pay a yard to keep everything ship shape and make it easy.  and sometimes, even that isn't enough to bring you what you want. 

when i had my big sailboat, for example, we lived on the water and the boat was in the backyard.  we had some great times on it.  but i liked to be out sailing and the big boat was really to take the whole family out and a lot of extra work to maintain and get going.  so as the kids went from infants to growing up, i would often find myself just jumping in the j80 or ideal 18 with one of the kids who quickly became an adolescent for a quick solo around the harbor.   they could drag their feet in the water and have fun or run the boat while i crewed...the family really wasn't into cruising so we sold the C&C....and so on.

my personal perspective is i would not change down to a self-made large sailboat like a pocketship unless i was super interested in building.   they are not easier to maintain compared to a comparable production boat (you will inevitably have the skills of a builder, but the boat itself will not be less maintenance intensive) and they are not easier to sell when you need to make your next change.   

the ability to maintain a boat in top shape is a clear function of the number of systems and materials.   the easiest to maintain hulls are solid fibreglass uncored hulls with the least number of systems (e.g., think a laser).   the easiest to sell boats are brands that have a great reputation, are kept in good condition, and are relatively popular.  so when i was simplifying on the way down (less systems - electrical, diesel, plumbing, need for crew...etc), it was very easy to do the maintenance i was comfotable with and  to make a transaction happen when i wanted to make a change with a popular boat like a J80 and an ideal 18.

anyway, that's my 2 cents.  not a knock on the pocketship.  but not where i would go if i was trying to simplify my sailing experience.

h

Thanks for the reply.  What you say resonates quite a bit.  :-)

Richard

One major aspect of that kind of change is the cost of ownership beyond the actual price of the boat. A Pocketship-class boat can be dry-stored in a garage eliminating marina fees and the yearly haul-out. It has far fewer square feet of surface to clean, paint and varnish. If it's stored indoors on a trailer and only put in the water for a few weeks at a time, expensive and toxic bottom paint is not needed. In fact, if you're willing to settle for a workboat finish, no marine finish products are needed.

As Howard mentions, the on-board systems are much simpler (some non-existent) and therefore cheaper and easier to maintain. Since you build it all yourself, you're free to substitute DIY store hardware and skip the "marine" tax. (Just be careful and stay aware of possible corrosion and strength issues.)

A home-built stored in the garage can also be much cheaper to insure. You can easily justify going to a liability-only policy. If you stay engineless, you don't need fuel spill coverage and in some states you can completely skip registration fees and excise and luxury taxes. Depending on your situation, there may be other savings available, too.

But don't expect to save acquistion costs by building it yourself, especially if you put a value on your labor time. Howard is right about needing to consider if you really want to become a boat builder. Many of the cost and simplicity advantage are the result of having a smaller boat, not a home-built one. You could get on the water for less money and time with something like a used Wight Potter 15 if those are your main priorities while still having the financial and time advantages of a smaller boat.

Howard also brings up the re-sale value. The sad truth is that unless you have done a truly exceptional job of building and maintaining the boat and find exactly the right buyer, you'll be lucky to get back the cost of the kit and supplies used to build the boat. Buyers seem to start with the kit price and then discount because it's a "used" boat. Never mind the additional supplies or the skilled labor it took to build it.

Building it yourself does give you the major advantage of knowing where and how everything went together. I disagree with Howard here in that I think that building it yourself makes you the best possible person to maintain it and makes it much easier to maintain than any factory boat. Factory boats have "invisible" structure. They have changes from one production run to another. They are also often optimized for assembly over maintenance. They use factory tooling and professional tools. The  materials come from professional supply chains. Whereas with a boat that you built you know exactly how things are put together (you can even customize it for easy maintenance). You own the tools that you assembled it with so you can do it again, if necessary. And you know where to get the parts and materials.

Another advantage of a smaller boat is flexibility. Trailerable boats can also go places where larger boats can't, like inland lakes across the country or that boat show on the other coast. They can also get to that picturesque sailing spot down the coats at 55 mph instead of 3.

So I would say that if you want a simpler, cheaper, less time-consuming and mor flexible sailing experience, go ahead and move to a smaller Pocketship-class boat either home-built or used. If you have the time, motivation and some extra money and want the builder experience, the Pocketship is a very nice boat.

Have fun,

Laszlo

About that maintenance thing.  When I lived aboard my CT 41 maintanance was no problem - time that otherwise would have been spent mowing a yard & cleaning gutters & etc. was dedicated to the boat.  Then we added a kid to the equation and moved off the boat.  Then weekends started to be dedicated to just keeping up with boat maintenance instead of sailing - so it was time to let that boat go.  Just like other posters have said above, boat needs change with life changes.

Consider something like a Flying Scot (yes, I own one, for class racing).  It is (only) for daysailing (and of course racing) unless you're into boat camping (onlboard or otherwise).  In its natural state it has "no" systems.  It can easily be fitted out with running lights and a small gas or electric motor if you feel the need.  It is very stable and hard to capsize unless really pushed.  It sails very well, with passengers staying quite dry in waves of 2-3 ft, easily holds 4.  If necessary you can stash a porta-potty under the forward deck/cuddy (as well as a cooler and other things).  The boat is about as maintenance free as any I've every owned.  

You can buy a good used Flying Scot and trailer for less than $6,000 - half that if you get lucky.  The one thing to watch for is that the foredeck and lower portion of the hull are balsa cored.  Many boats go 30+ years if well cared for with no problems, but if you find one with rot in the balsa core give it a pass.  The boat is trailerable with just about any vehicle that you're willing to put a hitch on.  Getting the mast up or down at the launch site is best done with 2, but can be done by one.  If you're proficient you can go from arrival at the ramp to sailing in under 30 minutes.

If you want to go smaller, there's Lido 14.  Bigger, with more systems, but very bullet-proof boats and suitble for smaller multi-day cruises are things like the Catalina 22 or J22.  In the back-when I was about 12 years old my family of 5 did 2 weeks to Bahamas and back in a our Catalina 22.

   And I forgot to mention - although I love my CLC kayaks and dory dearly - any wood, anywhere, on any boat adds a whole 'nother level of effort needed towards ongoing care and maintenance.

i wanted to add some additional thoughts inspired by some of the comments above that i thought might be useful.

cost:  out-of-pocket cost is a constraint to work within. each of us draws that line wherever we draw it and we have to work within that constraint.  so i just wanted to be clear that my focus in my thoughts is how to focus on 'joy' and not minimizing costs.

time is relative:   when you don't have time for something, it may not matter if you have minimized or most efficiently figured out how to do something.     as we move through life, the amount of time we have and how we allocate it is dynamic.   so one hour in one period of your life may be easy to find, and in another time of your life, the same one hour is very challenging to make available.   in my current state of affairs, its very easy for me to find two to three hours of free time but its very challenging to find six.  so as it relates to my current boating/outdoor stuff....i do a lot of local paddling with a lightweight kayak that i can get on/off the car and in/out of the water quickly with little hassle.  the all day trips are just not something i can easily muster up these days and the kayak i built and paddle is optimized to make that 3 hour window really enjoyable.

time does not pass at the same rate for all tasks:   there are some tasks i just really don't like to do and anytime spent on them seems like forever.....i hate trailering.   its not rationale....i always hated trailering a boat.  i know that about myself and i work that into my equation.   there are a lot of things about boating that i like and dislike and i have tried to adapt my approach to maximize time spent doing things i like.  i like just being out there and moving and just hearing the wind and waves.  i like to be able to see the shore.  i like using a bathroom on land.  i hate having a lot of tasks to do before getting out there, i like to be spontaneous and go when i want to go......anyway, the point i am making is simply this will be different for everybody and to bring joy back you need to do what makes you happy and what doesn't.  and sometimes sorting that out is a process.   anyway, as an example, the reason i still do the international sailing is, becuase in addition to finding a great group of guys, we have found a way to maximize doing what each individual likes that covers all the things that need to be done.   i hate planning, my partner loves it.  he arranges the boat, the location the provisioning.  he just loves doing that.  i like to drive.  i just love driving the boat.  he hates it.  so i just get an e-mail about six months in advance with a destination and some suggested flights and an intenerary....and i have fully researched the boat and its sailing charateristics and focus on driving the boat from place to place and making sure that whatever the wind and waves, the boat is being controlled and moving as efficiently as possible.   one of our other guys loves to cook in a galley.   another guys likes to do dishes.  we have a former physician who likes to make sure we are ready for whatever medical issue may come our way.   anyway, the only reason it works is i don't have to do everything and the portfolio that i get is a portfolio that i like and that each member of our group likes how we divvy up the duties.

anyway....there are a lot of solutions out there as you triangulate on the thoughts above:)

h

Thanks, folks for the thoughts.

I suppose the main thing is that it reinforces my belief that it is ok to change things up if I am not finding what I want.  I learned to sail on a Sunfish and really loved the speed of my Laser until racing just was no fun.

Building is attractive.  Before kids, when I had more time, I built several pieces of still usable furniture.  Now, after kids (maybe after retirement), I may have time to make use of the woodworking tools that have been idle for so long.  If I do jump in, it will probably be on one of the entry level kits, instead of finding myself with a pocketship-sized pile of wood and epoxy in the garage that I loathe.  Resale on an unassembled boat is liable to be nil.

Thanks again

Richard

Bubblehead wrote >> ...any wood, anywhere, on any boat adds a whole 'nother level of effort needed towards ongoing care and maintenance.

Absolutely true for bare, painted or varnished wood. Not too bad for epoxy-encapsulated painted or varnished wood. That can go years with only minor touch-ups.

And wood sandwiched between two layers of glass behaves more like plastic than wood, when it comes to maintenance.

Laszlo

   Wow, I'm glad to see there's so many others that have chewed this philosophical bone this much.  Sometimes I wonder if I've overthought the whole boat thing.  We grew up not too far from the rivers and Bay and fished from small trailered boats growing up.  Then I learned to sail on my aunt's Sailfish down in NC.  Paddling of various forms during college.  It wasn't until 15 years into my own career that I bought my own sailboat and I jumped in w/ both feet on a Tartan 30 and no regrets for another 15 years.  But, the overhaul needs on an aging boat and finances in the great recession didn't match, so moved on.  I'd done a CLC canoe long before and decided I could get my sailing w/ a little boat and crewing for others and it's been nice.  

But I'm starting to miss the ability to jump on a reasonably stable boat with at least minimal conveniences and go out and challenge myself in bigger wind and water again.  The skerry is really nice but it's not built for reaching down the faces of waves in a small craft warning and grinning like a fool as you peg the meter.  We called it "Tartan weather" because that was what that boat was made for.

So I find myself cruising the yacht listings and wishing.  The Pocketship would be a really neat idea for a smaller "big" boat, but I don't see how I'd finish building one, so I'll be thinking of buying something.  Not too old because I've been down the overhaul trail before, but not new.  For now, I'm thinking this summer will splurge on a bareboat charter Down East and then think again.  If I was back down in the Chesapeake now, I'd really think hard about joining one of the boating clubs.

And limit my CLC builds to smaller boats.  I'm really admiring the Peapod now.

Richard,

Building a boat with your own hands can be a transformational experience, but it is also a substantial commitment of your time. In the early 1980s I built my first boat, a 16-foot clinker-built Amesbury Skiff with oarlocks, spritsail, daggerboard, and rudder. I gave it to a friend on Cape Cod when I bought a Pacific Seacraft Flicka in 1985. I never quite got over the urge to build another.

The stars next aligned in 2013-14 and a friend and I built a Peeler Skiff in his barn. This time was much easier than the first. CLC kits are fantastic as is their customer service. About Time was was given a workboat finish using Interlux Brightsides, directly on sanded resin, which has been as maintenance free as gelcoat. Next month my son-in-law, grandsons, and I will fill a few dings, and sand and paint her inside and out---for the first time since she was launched in 2014. With no brightwork she requires no more care that a fiberglass boat.

I do not believe that building your own boat saves money. Especially when, with a little patience, you can find good used boats at good prices on the Internet. I will build a boat again when I next get the chance. If you like that kind of work, it's a wonderful experience and not to be missed. Almost every year the family and I do more customization and the boat keeps getting better. About Time has become a family institution and lives on a saltwater mooring in Wickford, RI, about a quarter mile from my eldest daughter's.

Cheers,

-Dick-