>> 1.  What gets varnished and what doesn't?  For example, the underside of the coaming?  The inside of the cockpit area?  Underside of hatch covers? <<

Not having built a Shearwater I'll have to be generic: If the surface can be hit by UV rays, it'll degrade the epoxy so you need to varnish. As every skier knows, UV can reflect. So I'd varnish a lot of the cockpit - not all the way up to your toes, though. I wouldn't (and haven't) worried about the inside of hatches.

>> 2.  After sanding there are a couple spots on the hull where you can see a bit of the weave of the glass.  I cannot feel anything in these spots, and they dissapear when wiped with denatured alcohol.  As the alcohol evaporates they become visible again.  Would these areas need more epoxy and then a sanding and blend in, or will they be unseen and not a problem with varnish? <<

You will probalby be able to see some of  the weave after varnish, especially if it catches the light right. It will look like a transparent pattern in the gloss - not like the white criss cross you're probably seeing now. Whether or not that's a problem is up to you.

3.  Do people usually plan out the rigging and do the "drill - fill - drill" prior to varnish,  or is the rigging drilled into the boat after varnish and sealed with silicone when the screw is driven in?

Drill-fill-drill occurs after varnish. At least the first time you varnish it. (You'll be renewing the varnish for years.) The first varnish is a lot easier without hardware in the way.

Even with drill-fill-drill, it's not a bad idea to bed your hardware in a sealant (silicone or traditional marine caulk). Belts & suspenders.

>> Thanks again for all the advice on this boat.  It's sitting like a trophy in my garage right now -- even unvarnished I'm very proud of it. <<

You should be! Congratulations!

Hi Dave, 

below is my perspective on each question:

1) varnish the all of the outsides including the inside of the coaming ....anything that is routinely in the sun.   as for me, i don't varnish inside the cockpit or on the back-side of hatches.  the main reason for the varnish finish is UV protection....the fibreglass/epoxy will break down over time in sunlight.  that said, for any repair, you need to remove varnish and that is pretty straight-forward on the outside of a kayak but gets pretty tricky on inside surfaces.  also i keep my boat in a garage when it is not being used...out of the sun.  fwiw, i have changed my perspecive on varnishing the cockpit over time - used to but not anymore.  i found that most of the cockpit that can see sun is usually covered by a foam seat or cheek pads or, when i am paddling, by me....so i stopped doing the inside. 

2) put a bit of varnish over it as a quick test, if it continues to disapear, you are fine.  i would expect it would be ok based on your alcahol test.  you can do this with a couple drops of varnish on a clean paper towel just to rub it over the spot.   it is pretty typical what you describe so i think you are done with epoxy.

3) do your drill/fill/drill work before varnish work.   there are two reasons for this.  first, epoxy will not adhere to varnish so it can compromize the intregration of the epoxy with the deck that you are drilling/filling/drilling into.  2nd, it is fairly common in drilling holes that you can get a little tear out of the glass (glass pulls away from the wood around the hole) and you will end up as part of the process doing a little repair that is a non-event/integrated into the drill/fill/drill process if there is no varnish on the boat yet.  if there is varnish, becuase epoxy won't stick to varnish, you will now have to sand the varnish off as an additional step.  also, for sun protection, the epoxy around the edge of the hole, would now need a bit of varnish to give it UV protection.  in summary, varnish is last after any epoxy work is done.  btw...there was a good set of posts recently on drill fill drill that's worth a read...  https://www.clcboats.com/forum/clcforum/thread/47581.html

hope that helps

h

just to clarify, what may seem a conflict with cheniers perspective on drill fill drill and when it occurs.  drill/fill/drill in my book does not include installing the hardware.  it's all the work prior to the hardware getting installed (creating and waterproofing any holes in the hull).  then you would varnish on a surface with no obstacles (e.g., the fittings).   after varnish, you would actually install the fittings with a dab of silcone as part of that process.

h

Thanks again for all they advice -- I get what you are saying about doing the drill and fill (then varnish) then drill and install the hardware for rigging.

I have to be honest -- drilling any kind of holes in the hull of my boat at this point is a bit nerve racking.

One question - other than the sketch on outfitting a boat on this website, are there any guidelines/spacing/measurements available for the rigging?  I'm looking for bungees fore and aft (enough for a spare paddle) as well as perimeter lines.

Thanks again,  Dave.

Hi david, 

just to clarify on my recomendation, i would drill/fill and your final drill before varnishing.  then varnish and then install the hardware.  

the reason is that you want to hold your varnishing up until you are sure there is no more epoxy work required.  it happens some times that in the drill....you make a mistake and you need a little epoxy work to fix it up.

on rigging plans, there are a lot of options but you will see some pretty standard approaches.  in the construction gallery, related to this link: https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/kayak-kits/shearwater-17-hybrid-touring-sea-kayak-kit.html   you can see some choices.   i typically do something very close to picture 15 of 52 (ian hamiltons boat from new zealand).

i try to rig my boats balancing use, safety and aesthetics.  so i typically have bungees directly in fron to cockpit, and aft.  and two additional bungees towards bow and stern for securing paddles.  i also typically do perimeter lines becuase when you have to grab a boat if you fall out, it can be very challening to hold onto  slick hull without perimeter lines (this is the basic layout of 15 of 52).

yes, its a pain in the butt.  i map mine out typically with some blue tape to make sure i like how i am approaching it....and then when i have it the way i want, then i carefully start my driling.   the picture below demonstrated 'mocking it up'   with blue tape.  this way you can check it all out prior to drilling.

i don't know if there are official standard measurements, but i keep a paddle handy as well as a waterbottle to test my design before committing holes to the hull.  happy to take measurements off of one of my boats if that is helpful...but i think you can come up with something you like from pictures.

h

Ok -- I get the drilling sequence now.   Thanks H.   That makes a lot of sense due to the expoxy not sticking to the varnish.

Seems like I'm not quite ready for varnish then yet -- all these small jobs are quite time consuming.

Thanks for the advice on the deck rigging...  the photo you referenced is the same rigging that I'm wanting to do on my boat, so that's very good.

You're right I think I can lay it out with tape and get an good picture of what needs to be drilled.  If you don't mind - would you be able to provide the spacing between the three attach points just infront of the cockpit, and the two attach points behind?  The rest I can layout myself.  I'm sure that symetry is probably the most important aspect here.

One further question regarding the photo you referenced..  Do you know the purpose of the white ball that the forward bungee is fed thru?  I haven't seen that on other photos of similar rigging?

Thanks again, dave.

Hi Dave, 

i do 7 inch as my standard spacing.  so in the front there are three holes a side 7 inches apart.   in the back, behind the cockpit, its two holes as side 6 1/2 inch spacing.

the white ball in the picture is to raise the bungee for the potential paddle hold down bungee (which is up towards the bow) up away from the deck so that you can easily get your paddle under it.  i don't personally use them but have seen them on some boats.  if you are routinely wanting to stow a paddle while underway they are pretty useful.  it can be pretty difficult while underway to slide a paddle under that forward bungee if you can't easily get your blade under it.

h

Thanks again hspira,  those measurements will get me started for sure.  Also, thanks for the tip on the ball through the bungee for the paddle.

I'll post some more as I get further along.

dave. 

thanks Dave,

in my original post i wrote 'in the back, behind the cockpit, its two holes as side 6 1/2 inch spacing.'  that should have also said 7 inches.   i wish they had an edit feature for this posting.

as i said, the blue tape really helps me sort out the aesthetic element becuase each hull is different.  what i find interesting is also sorting out how close the holes go to the edge/sheer line of the boat. and how to make that line up in a pleasing way.  in the boat below which i finished recently, i also used blue tape to visualize the perimeter lines which helped me get, what i think, was a nice line up.

the other thing to keep in mind is how the hole placement can also be effected by the type of fitting you are using to hold your bungees/lines.  in shearwaters and the boat in this picture, they use loops of nylon strap that are bolted through the hull but the actual place the line runs is going to be inboard of the hole about an inch becuase the hole is for the bolt, not the line.  things like deck color, bungee color and bolt color can also impact how it all looks.  on the boat in the picture above, i painted all the bolt heads and washers with rustoleum flat black as when the bolts were left shiny, it drew a lot of attention to them in a way that i thought was not flattering relative to the look i wanted.  when i blacked them out, they kind of disappeared.

anyway, sorry for babbling on but just wanted to share some of the other thoughts that relate to the question of how to get rigging that complements your work.

h

Thanks again hspira -- I appreciate all the info I can get.

Like you I was planning to paint the screws and washers black to blend in, as I'm trying to have black be the accent color on the boat - black lines, black harware, black stripe, black rubstrips, etc.

My plan was to use the nylon webbing and thru-hull screw/nut to secure the lines.  My plan is to form a loop on either side of the screw - inboard for the bungee, outboard for the perimeter line.

I laid out one set of tape today, but I peeled it all off as I didn't like the look.  In looking at more photos of Shearwater Sports it seems that the screw attachment point is about  in the middle of the height of the shear panel.  I had min only on the deck and it looked off somehow... I'm going to try a different layout in the next day or two, plus I'm going to mock up one of the web loops with two loops.

Thanks again for all your help.

d.

sounds very slick.

i find that if i have deck lines, they tend to look better if they follow the shear line.

for the shearwater series, this would put the screws for the forward bungees relatively low on the shear panel (and closer to the shear line) then what you typically see in the pictures becuase in most pictures there is not a a deck line.

without deck lines,  the forward bungees tend to be more narrow/towards the center of the shear panel...but, in my view, this creates an awkward looking result if you do have deck lines.

anyway, the point is you can put the screws anywhere you want....hence the blue tape exercise.

on the webbing,  just to share, i use a single loop and make the loop a bit bigger than required for the bungee so i can run the bungee and the deck line through the same loop.  the piece then is a bit smaller vs a loop on either side.  i use 1/8 inch black nylon for my deck lines.

i am sure you will make terrific choices and it will look great.

h