WaterLust Canoes

I am absolutely fascinated by these canoes! How long will it take for them to be set up as a kit? Any guess how much the kit might cost? Or plans? Plans would work too!!


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RE: WaterLust Canoes

 

Rest assured friend, you're not alone in this... not at all alone!

I e-mailed & called (left a message at least) John Harris, then the folks at Waterlust no more than a day or two after their first appearance here but as yet haven't heard anything in reply.

That Waterlust partners with various organizations to promote their goals ought to be 100% in line with what CLC'S set out to do.

I'd dearly love to know more about whether (WHEN??) they'll be making a new product announcement about this design.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

I, of course, do not speak in any way for CLC, but please keep in mind that it's one thing to design/build a couple of canoes in the controlled environment of the shop at CLC.  It's a quantum leap difference to making those designs available for general consumption, with the customer service and hopefully bulletproof documentation that accompanies them.  If you've read any of John's writing, you know how much of an investment he makes in the manuals for any given boat.  That investment itself appears to be the tipping point whether a design makes it in the catalog or just becomes an conversation piece on the website.  

Being interested in the Nanoship myself and having one CLC boat under my belt, I'm wondering what it might take to become a "beta builder".  This with the understanding that the technical documentation might not only be unavailable, but I could conceivably be asked to provide some of the content for the aforementioned documentation.  An very interesting concept and a very daunting challenge.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

CaptainSkully there's a couple of points you raise that bear on this discussion.

Certainly John's 'investment' in the whole concept and exectution of his entire operation has to affect how he approaches adding a new product to the top end. I admire his achievement in bringing kits such as these to a wider audience than might otherwise be served by companines making plans available, or the materials from which one can make a dream come true, if one has the wherewithal to make it happen on one's own.

(I took that route back some 44 years ago. Had I known then what I know now that craft might still be around!)

There must of course be sufficient market to make new additions viable candidates but at the same time by making our community aware of one-time 'one-off' efforts (such as the Waterlust 'twins' and the Skerry Raid project among others described on the Developments page) with an invitation to contact CLCBoats (if one has an interest in any of them) the motivation surely must include an element of intent to survey what level of interest there may be in them?

That the Skerry Raid page mentions it being a Beta project supports your thought on how these might yet reach us! I've had plans for a couple of Iain Oughtred designs stowed away for several years yet that first experience of 'from-scratch' (along with other pursuits demanding of time and energy) make me too aware of what it takes to undertake such a project without assistance. Having pre-cut parts available, knowing the same parts have been assembled to yield seaworthy craft, is the keystone.

My posts to this forum are intended to show my interest in and support of John and his dreams, as well as my own.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

I am in no hurry. I still haven't even put in my order for a NE Dory yet. Dory 1st then I was thinking these canoes would be a great 2nd project!

   

RE: WaterLust Canoes

>>>>the motivation surely must include an element of intent to survey what level of interest there may be in them?>>>>

 

Absolutely it does!

Some of what we do here is shared online simply because we're small-boat nuts, and just want to have a conversation about it, not make any money. But if we detect enough interest we might undertake the extravagant documentation required for a current-generation CLC manual. (We're into the six figures in development costs for the Teardrop Camper. It took five of us six months to create that manual. It seems to have been worth it.)

Since the big cost is the illustrated step-by-step manual, there are in-between cases where we'll just offer plans suited to intermediate-to-advanced builders. That includes some real oddballs like Madness-the-proa, the Faering Cruiser, and the soon-to-be-available-as-plans Nesting Expedition Dinghy and Autumn Leaves Canoe Yawl. All of those designs were either done just for fun, and we don't expect to ever get our money back, or the naval architecture was commissioned by a paying client.

The Outrigger Junior has generated such excitement that there was never any doubt that it would become a "full selection," with the soup-to-nuts instruction manual and so on. It's currently hung up awaiting completion of its manual. Ditto NanoShip.

So many boats, so little time (and money)...

An illustration like this doesn't auto-generate in CAD software!  Somebody has to DO it (our colleague Jay in this case).

Faering Cruiser

(Click to embiggen and marvel at the detail.)

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   Isn't this streching "canoe" a bit far towards double ended sail boat?  

RE: WaterLust Canoes

What a nice boat! I'd buy one :-) Nice drawing, Jay.

Grumpy, that's no more a canoe than I am. On the other hand, with the self-bailing cockpit and the low sides to accommodate the sliding seat rowing rig, it ends up feeling sort of like a sit-on-top kayak with a sailing rig, all on steroids.

Laszlo

RE: WaterLust Canoes

 John, CLC said (in part):

<< there are in-between cases where we'll just offer plans suited to intermediate-to-advanced builders.>>

Heck YEAH!

Where do I sign up for a set for one of the Waterlust Twins then!

With its inboard daggerboard & that sweet Hobie drive it's a little more refined than the MacGregor 'stretchable' plans of Iain Oughtred. Iain's inspirations have captivated me for many years (the marine ply I still have I bought in 1990 it seems) while maybe requiring a little more water-wise experience than I can yet claim.

Woodworking & messing with epoxy are more my kind of entertainment so undertaking such an endeavor as the Waterlust crew's completed so nicely doesn't scare me one iota! Tell me how much you want & the check'll be in the mail!

RE: WaterLust Canoes

One of my other "hobbies" is building wooden clocks.  Clayton Boyer has an interesting business model.  In order to buy one of his more complicated plans, you must first have shown you can build one of his entry-level models.  Then and only then will he even sell you the plans for one of the more advanced designs.  This is a self correcting business model which I'm sure greatly reduces the amount of customer service he has to provide.  What he does provide is excellent BTW.

Maybe in order to buy plans for any project that has not been fully developed, one must have first build one of CLC boats that comes with a manual.  I know that having built an EP, I have almost no doubts about my ability to build the PM.

 "It's [Outrigger Junior] currently hung up awaiting completion of its manual. Ditto NanoShip." - John, CLC

This is some of the best/worst news I've ever seen on this forum.  Best, because this is the focus of my "next-boat-itis".  Worst, for the same reason.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

I love the Expedition Canoe and the Wanderlust videos of the first two models in action. But I've got to admit that Autumn Leaves is the expedition boat that really appeals to me. It looks as comfy for camp-cruising as Pocketship, yet it should be easier to row in a pinch. OK, maybe not as good for rowing as the Southwester Dory, but perhaps safer in coastal waters (or the Great Lakes)? Certainly a bit easier to sleep and read and cook onboard.

Who wants to go on a two-week raid around and about Lake Superior's Apostle Islands next year?

  

RE: WaterLust Canoes

CaptainSkully said:

<<Maybe in order to buy plans for any project that has not been fully developed, one must have first build one of CLC boats that comes with a manual.>>

Well I for one emphatically hope that's not a suggestion John takes too close to heart!

Where plans vs. kits are involved I'd have to believe John's been in business long enough to allow Caveat Emptor to rule. For customer support behind well-developed, manual-included kits to be realistically provided the costs are expected to be part of the price paid.

Plans on the other hand, available at significantly less cost but also with more to be provided by the prospective builder, might be purchased merely to serve as an obejct of study. Taking a set through to a successful build & launch ought not come with a builder prepared to do much more than perhaps enlist support from members to this or other forums for questions that might arise.

I'd be hard pressed to embark on a full-blown project intended only to serve as a stepping stone to another presenting more challenge but also better suited to fulfilling my desires. At my stage in life I'm all too reluctant to acquire more 'stuff' for what it takes in space, time, and energy to deal with going forward. (I'd have undertaken assembly of an Annapolis Wherry had I not determined a year ago it's a little too large for my needs besides not being adaptable to sail.)

RE: WaterLust Canoes

John's posted to a Facebook group that CNC panels to build an Expedition canoe can be obtained from CLC now. No instructions will accompany them however so I assume it's up to a prospective builder to determine wheter such an option presents more of a challenge to their abilities than they wish to undertake.

I've not yet seen anything further on this but now that he's back from Port Townsend's Wooden Boat Festival perhaps he'll expand on this soon.

As I've had several sheets of BS1088 ply stashed for years (literally!) I enquired if perhaps full-size patterns (printed on dimensionally stable film media) might be derived from their CNC files that I then could use to make progress towards building one of these beauties without having to purchase pre-cut panels. If others of you expressing interest in this endeavor feel similarly I encourage you to let John know your interest in patterns vs. CNC'd panels.

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   I saw the Canoes when they were first watered and I immediately fell in love with them. Is it true that you can order the cut panels now without instruction manual? I only have a Passagemaker under my belt and I am not sure if I could build the canoes without instructions. Maybe they should just put the sequence of things on two pages and where which part is supposed to go. Maybe it would also help to make the pictures of the webcam available that filmed the construction of the prototypes. Another option would be a building workshop in Annapolis for people who are interested. I think in a week one could proceed far enough to be able to finish things by oneself after that. I am definetly interested in buying a kit of the Waterlust canoes. 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

I have really been enjoying watching the videos being posted by the Waterlust folks sailing these canoes. In nearly all they have a, I guess you would say pilot sitting in the cockpit. Plus a second person setting on the decking behind the pilot with their feet in the cockpit. This got me thinking, the biggest drawback for me on this boat design is the fact that it is designed for a single occupant. How difficult or how practical would it be to stretch the boat out a bit making the cockpit long enough to fit two? How would this affect handling? I really don’t think my wife would ever have the desire to learn how to pilot her own craft. But if I can make seating for her this design just might win out over the NE Dory for me.    

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Had a nice long phone conversation with Dillon Majoros Friday last.

I suggest interested parties stay tuned here for more info on topics raised in this thread. We'll know more pretty soon....

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Ok I am officially excited now    

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Keep the excitement alive Mikeflys, and that patience is a virtue!

We're closer every day to our goal.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   Bump, any updates on this? The design seems brilliant and I want to add my vote for plans and a kit to be made available.

I emailed a wish list for this design about a week ago, but haven't heard anything back yet, so I thought I'd pose the same comments/questions here:

I live in Albany Western Australia, which has shall we say "boisterous" conditions and as such would probably need a smaller sail plan (60 ft2, 6m2 ?). I realise I could reef the existing plan, but a smaller sail for windier areas would be great.

Given the above conditions, I would love it if the design could incorporate small high set removable outriggers (like the ones Solway Dory use) for extra stability. The idea with these is that they are mostly out of the water, but offer some extra buoyancy when suddenly heeled over. The boat can still capsise, but the outriggers give a bit more time to react. If the boat does capsise, the outriggers make it much easier to re-enter the boat and as such make self rescue much easier. The area between the front combing and the hatch seems like it might be the best spot for a quickly detachable laminated beam, which could be styled to fit with the style of the boat.

With self rescue in mind and given as I am unlikely to sleep in the boat, I would ideally like the bulkhead behind the seat to be solid to close this area in for extra buoyancy. It would probably be worth incorporating a hatch then for extra storage?

Are these idea feasible, what do other people think?

Cheers,

Adrian

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   

I made the decision to go with the NE Dory. I still love the design for the Waterlust Canoe but I feel the Dory will be a better fit for me and my wife. Of course the fall kit sale didn't hurt the decision any at all! I still hope maybe in a year or two as a 2nd boat, these might just be the way to go. Although the Autumn leaves is really appealing as well!

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Last I heard from Dillon (~ 10 days ago) the project is moving forward but there's no timeline, it's up to JCH to complete his end of the logistics then sign off on a date.

I'm not gonna be a pest bothering them for news every week, resigned to being patient while hopeful I can contemplate a kit (sans instructions or not) for a'building next winter if not this'n.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

 

 

 

 

Great update from Adrian

Looks like the CLC Exp Canoe is going ahead.Adrian contacted them and here is the reply.
I contacted CLC a little while ago with a few suggestions and enquiries about this design and just received a reply from Dillon. This design just keeps getting better and better to me:

"Hi Adrian

Thanks for your interest in the Expedition Canoe! I've just spoken to John and confirm that we will plan to offer the boat as a kit. We'll hold off on creating a full-blown manual (for now), but will include a simple step-by-step assembly plan to help with the build. As such, we recommend that builders have some experience with stitch-and-glue construction before tackling this project. I'm sure we'd make the kit available through our Australian Dealer (www.denmanmarine.com.au) and perhaps offer plans and templates in the future.

I appreciate your thoughts and input on the design - it's feedback like this that makes the boat better! There will be provision to mount small "training wheel" amas (a-la Solway Dory) at the forward cockpit bulkhead. We didn't include these with the initial build because we simply didn't have enough time with only a few weeks for construction! I've added a second mast-step for the main (also at that forward cockpit bulkhead) to allow one to sail with the mizzen stowed and the main reefed to approximately 35 sq.ft. We set our rig up with single-line reefing (with controls led to the aft end of the boom), and I recommend this setup for anyone planning on sailing in blustery conditions. The Waterlust crew were able to self-rescue when they ran capsize drills, and I've added a bit of side deck volume to prohibit flooding when the boat is on its side. A good inflatable buoyancy bag (or waterproof gear bag) stowed under the aft deck will greatly decrease flood-able volume, and can be moved / deflated to allow for sleeping on board.

Hope this helps - please let me know if you have any other thoughts or questions.

Best,

Dillon"

I was particularly interested in whether this design could be self rescued on the water and I was hoping there would be a way to attach small amas for security in windier conditions, so hearing the above is great. It seems like Dillon is really trying to tailor the design to a wider range of conditions. I'm going to flick him a quick mail back re timelines for this, as in my book this design holds the most appeal for what would work for me in the boisterous conditions it is likely to be sailed in.

Cheers,

Adrian

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Adrian thanks for your update info on this!

Glad to see other 'cheerleaders' urging Dillon & John H. on towards bringing this design to the rest of us.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

 Still hoping for 'good news' before snow flies!

Being Persistent Paid Off!

 http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/wooden-sailboat-kits/waterlust-sailing-canoe.html

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   I was at CLC the other day and heard that only one waterlust canoe was sold so far.  I wonder who bought it and if he/she can report about their building experience. I am currenly building a Petrel Play, the waterlust canoe is scheduled to become my next project in spring.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

 If just ONE so far (really??) I'm guessing my name's on it.

Be patient waiting for reports on a'building though, it'll be a few months before I can commit to starting this.

Reading my prior posts you'll understand why; I've dreamed of building something like Ian Oughtred's Magregor for close to 35 years. As I approach 70 something with a little more stability, not to mention in kit form, is a more attractive proposition.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   It sure looks like a sweet craft. Love the addition of the mirage drive for those with limited paddling ability. Sounds like it even makes good time in the bicycle mode. In the end, why peddle when you can sail? Boat, drive and sail plan gets a bit pricey, but bet it would be the belle of the boat show ball.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Because you can't always sail, because sometimes it's easier to pedal than sail, such as in close quarters. Or, as below, the wind was blowing right from the ramp and I was trying to beat the squalls ashore.

Laszlo

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Ah, the Faering Cruiser, a beautiful looking design.... 

Hey Laszlo, care to hazard a comparison between the Waterlust Canoe and the Faering Cruiser? I wonder how the Cruiser would go with mirage drive propulsion?

RE: WaterLust Canoes

I haven't seen a Wanderlust Canoe in person, so not sure how valid my comparison would be, but I see two main differences - the Mirage drive vs. the sliding seat rowing system and the enclosed cabins. The latter certainly make the FC very comfortable to sleep in, advantage FC. On the other hand, the Mirage drive lets you use your most powerful propulsive muscles AND face in the direction of travel, advantage WC.

The Faering Cruiser's sail plan appeals to me more than the Wanderlust Canoe's does and I like the security of 375 lbs of water ballast when needed. Finally, the cargo capacity of the Faering Cruiser is astonishing - you can load it with almost 1000 lbs of gear, food and water and it will still be a lively boat.

As I said over in another thread, I don't think that you could put a Mirage drive into the Faering Cruiser without removing the centerboard and that would eliminate any sailing.

Laszlo

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   I am about to order my WaterLust kit and I am wondering if anybody else bought and maybe started building the sailing canoe so far. I know only of spclark who wrote in this thread that he bought the kit, too. spclark, did you start building already? And anybody else maybe? I just enquired if I can get the old pointed coaming of the original WaterLust canoes. Dillon had altered the form to allow for the mainmast aft step which I most probably won't need. I think the old coaming form looked racier. Will report back when I got the kit and started building.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

No Clemens, I've opened the boxes & bought 2x4's for building horses but that's it.

I'm in no hurry, this is a long-term dream, I don't want to be rushing only to find I'm not quite prepared for what might challenge me along the way.

First hurdle is: where I'm to do this? The garage (needs to be sheetrocked first; I get my half, she gets hers) or a covered deck (yet to be built) beside the garage... assuming my property has sufficient set-back for such a structure.

I could use the basement I suppose, but the closest window isn't big enough!

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   Hi Spclark, I picked up my Waterlust kit today at CLC. I will build it part in the garage, part outside. Last summer I bought a huge party tent for roughly 100 bucks on Amazon and built a Passagemaker Dinghy under it on my driveway. Rain protection was not as good as I had hoped, the canvas had a couple of little holes, which forced me at times to take refuge in the garage, but all in all it worked out pretty well. Happy to share my experience further on. 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Looking forward to your posts Clemens! I'm a little jealous you're starting before me but that's life....

When I set about installing 12"x12" ceramic tile in the kitchen where I used to live I set up the tile wet saw in the driveway, near the back door.

Of COURSE once I'd started a huge storm blew in, so I grabbed the mainsail from that scow I built years ago, hooked the foot to two screw eyes hastily fixed to the garage & held the head high with a spinnaker pole. The boat was long gone but I'd saved what I thought might come in handy!

My Waterlust building calendar's got a few pages to it, I'm in no hurry.

Your plans include the Hobie drive? Dillon's told me they're introducing a 'reversible' model soon, which may lower prices for the original design.

I'd like to use that, or more typical oars at first, but my real goal is its sailing capability.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

 

Hi Spclark,

yes, I plan to put in the Hobie drive, preferably the new one with the reverse, I might use the boat occasionally also without the sails, because I am finishing a Petrel Play kayak at the moment and if we want to go kayaking as a family two can take the canoe with the drive and one the Petrel.

Just started glueing the planks of the canoe. They seem very thin, that makes them light, but the appear also quite vulnerable. But with all the bulkheads stability shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

I don't know if I am the first who started building the Waterlust canoes outside of the CLC shop. Anyhow my first experiences are excellent. I have now finished the hull up to plank #3 of 4. It is coming together beautifully and my impression is that tolerances are tighter and precision of the cutting and fit are on a higher level than with my previous CLC projects. Maybe that's just me or it is due to the fact that the Passagemaker and the Petrel Play I built previously are older designs. I liked building the other boats, too, else I wouldn't have returned to CLC. But I can especially reccommend these Waterlust canoes so far. And thanks a lot also to Dillon who dilligently responds to all the questions I have.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

  Great to see one of these being built! Do you have any more info re the amas?

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   No, I don't, sorry Adrian. For a sailing canoe the design is quite beamy, so I think the amas will be necessary only in extreme conditions. But that's only a guess, I haven't sailed them yet of course.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   No worries mate, I'll send an email to Dillion. I live in a relatively boisterous area and figure the amas will be essential....

Re your build, have you considered a build thread on the Woodenboat forum (or similar). I'd suggest the builders club here, but it's only available to people in the USA and I live in Oz....... A few pictures and comments on your build as it progresses  would be great.

 

Cheers,

 

Adrian

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   Building my Waterlust Canoe is proceeding very nicely, with generous help by Dillon when needed. I just glassed the bottom. Has anybody else start building in the meantime? If so I'd be happy to share some thoughts about little issues I encountered. I probably won't make it to finish in time for OkoumeFest to bring it along, but I am aiming at a camping trip over memorial day.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Clemens I envy you for having passed the open-carton stage! That's as far as I've progressed since my kit arrived, and read the manual a couple times too just for familiarization.

You going the full Mirage Drive + sail(s) + maybe paddle/oars route? My intentions include all that though not all at once, or in that order either.

Hope to begin assembly in a few months but sooo many things to get past first that's strictly a hope at present rather than a schedule.

Please summarize the points you & Dillon have discussed! Maybe you can save me a call to him to cover that ground once again.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   I have finished building my Waterlust canoe. After first wet trials in Maine and Assateague Island there are some additions and modifications I have in mind. But the boat sails well and is a lot of fun. Check out some photos here: https://www.facebook.com/clemens.wergin/posts/1593991380612193?pnref=story

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Awesome news Wergin (or is your first name Clemens? My apologies if so!)!

You have a Mirage drive fitted yet? I'm really curious as to just how that will work in this craft. Sails look great, color you picked'd be my choice too.

That URL didn't work but I found your FB page, good looking at all your boat pics.

Alas my kit's no farther along now than when I opened it last March. Too many other things between it's getting assembled and where my life is presently... but it will happen!

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   The link worked for me, and your boat looks great.

Is sail storage a problem if you shift from sailing to paddling (or rowing) on the water?

RE: WaterLust Canoes

 

Hi Birch2, storing sails on deck is not a problem if you tie the main sail together to prevent parts of it from sliding into the water. And setting the main sail or taking it down is really easy because the mizzen acts as a weather vain and helps keeping the boat facing the wind.

Hi spclark, my first name is Clemens ;-) and yes I fitted the Hobie drive. It is fun, but you want rubber mats on the bottom of the boat because else you get deep scratches when some grain is caught under the seat, because you will inevitably slide a little back and forth while cycling. The only disadvantage of the Hobie drive is that the paddles stick out quite a bit under the boat, so you cannot use it in very shallow water.

I also want to say a big thank you again to Dillon Majoros who lead me very friendly through the building process whenever I had a question. It was a really fun experience. 

 

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Thanks Clemens, that's useful info.

In that you're probably the first Waterlust builder to put one in the water that we know of (other than the CLC & Waterlust project folks of course!) your experiences are helpful to the rest of us.

The grit risk I'd have to think would be there with anything getting actual use, thanks for your suggestion.

I'd queried Dillon about using a pedal-cranked prop design in this craft, he allowed it's possible but that a Mirage doesn't need quite as much draft as those he's aware of. Water that shallow'd better for paddle anyway I'd have to think? Or a pole.

One question: I'm curious what yours weighs; out of the water can one person handle the hull itself? I'm hoping to be able to car-top mine rather than have to invest in then haul/store a trailer.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

   Hi spclark, in my opinion the boat is too heavy to handle alone. I barely manage to get my Petrel Play on my own on the top of my car, doing this with the twice as heavy Waterlust is just impossible. If you want to car top it at all like the Waterlust guys did you will need a long car and at least two people to get it up and down. But at a boat ramp you can of course get it off and on a trailer without a problem also on your own.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Clemens thanks for posting that info.

That I (currently) drive a MINI Clubman makes me wish I were closer to where you are so we could gives this a try.

I'll know more once I start a'building & can get a feel for the weight as my kit comes together. Trailering's not impossible, just an extra expense requiring planning for storage when not in use.

RE: WaterLust Canoes

Doug Cameron’s the latest to get a Waterlust built & into the water!

I got wind of Doug & his adventurous lifestyle earlier this week, be welcoming his contributions here once he gets a moment off the water to log in.

Looks like his prior sailing experiences give him a solid handle for wringing his Waterlust out to the max!

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