Outrigger Junior

Hello everybody, 

I wonder if there is anybody here with some insiders information concerning the Junior Outrigger and when it will be finally available. I discovered the pictures of the boat almost 2 years ago, I immediately fell in love with her, (this is THE boat I always dreamed of), and since that time, I am taking infinite pain every morning coming to the site and nervously checking if it has been relased or not. This is a big stress every morning...

May be for Christmas ?

Quousque tandem abutere...

 

 

 


24 replies:

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RE: Outrigger Junior

This is what I love about this forum. Where else do you find boat builders quoting Cicero in the original Latin, appropriate to the post?

Thank you

Laszlo

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

  Check out the big brain on Laszlo... SEEYA Jack 

RE: Outrigger Junior

The Outrigger Junior is an exciting project in which we've invested massively.  It's coming.

For years the feedback from all corners (including this bulletin board) is emphatic, and correct:  If the instruction manual isn't as near to perfect as possible without inciting the jealousy of the gods, don't ship the kit.  

The Outrigger Junior is straightforward for amateurs to build. Writing and illustrating its instruction manual is not.  We're taking our time.  While I'm miserably aware of the long lag between the first sail and the completion of the manual, I'd prefer to lose the faith of some early enthusiasts than short-change such a good design with an underbaked manual. 

Cuivis dolori remedium est patientia.

CLC Outrigger Junior

RE: Outrigger Junior

John,

Let me put in my vote for a two-tier manual system. If we present proof of having already built at least 1 boat and are willing to sign a no-bitching waiver that's at least as strong as the go-ahead-and-let-me-drown-myself waiver for Okoumefest, could we get a 2nd best manual (+kit) today instead of a perfect one tomorrow?

Lingua mortua sola lingua bona est

Laszlo

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

 Many thanks, John, for your detailled answer.

It is fear to say that passion, patience and patior (suffer) have the same origin...

I fully understand your quest for excellence, and that excellence does not accept any compromise. 

I run a small business with high end quality products, and I very much understand your approach.

But, I am a woodworker per profession, I have alreay worked with epoxy and composite, and I know by heart almost all the wonderfull videos you have made available, concerning the buidling of a boat, canoe, etc... Together with the few pictures of the building of the Outrigger, I really think that I would be able to construct the boat. As Laszlo,  I even can sign all necessary weavers as a Beta User... 

As a matter of fact, it will take me 6 months or one year to build the boat. This would let you plenty of the time to complete the manual, and send it to me before I finish. At least, I would be able to begin.

Wouldn't it make sense ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

Looking over the picures of the OJ I had a few questions/thoughts.  I started my sailing life on Hobies so I am coming at it from that direction. 

One of the things I think they got right are thier kick-up rudders.  Has there been any thought about adding a Hobie rudder to the OJ?  I am thinking the rudder from an H18 would be a good fit.

For land transportation you can, obviously, disassemble and trailer the OJ.  Would it be able to handle remaining assembled and being tilted on a trailer?  The tilting is to reduce the width so you can leagaly tow it.  Leaving it assembled would drastically reduce launch time.

Finally, on catamarans the trampoline is an important part of the structure of the boat.  Getting it properly taught has a significant effect on boat performance.  It helps keep the boat rigid so there is minimal wasted energy in the different parts "moving" around.  Does the trampoline on the OJ serve this function in addition to being a good area for the crew or is the connection of the hulls to the crossbeams rigid enough?

It's a really cool looking boat and from what I see in the videos it sails really well.  I look forward to getting a chance to sail it at Okumefest in May.

 

Nick

   

RE: Outrigger Junior

I thought life was challenging enough just trying to build my Northeaster Dory. Now I have to resurrect my high school Latin just to understand what is being said on this bulletin board!

Ex nihilo nihil fit.

RE: Outrigger Junior

   I don't speak Latin. mo’Dajvo’ pa’wIjDaq je narghpu’ He’So’bogh SajlIj.

George K

RE: Outrigger Junior

George,

Thanks for finding my cat.

Laszlo

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

   There are Klingons on the starboard bow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE

Merry Christmas!

Dan

RE: Outrigger Junior

Graecum est; non legitur

RE: Outrigger Junior

>>>Together with the few pictures of the building of the Outrigger, I really think that I would be able to construct the boat. As Laszlo,  I even can sign all necessary waivers as a Beta User... >>>>

 

Well, fair enough, we know the kit works, have ironed out 100% of the details, and even have a beautiful set of plans complete.  Send me an email (john@clcboats.com) if you want to talk about getting a BETA version.  We've already had six of them built so we have gleaned as much insight as we ever will from BETA builders.  I get fried almost daily (sometimes deservedly, often not) by people with questions arising from instruction manuals.  Thus the pace of new-manual-rollout has been slowed while we wring our hands and edit and edit and edit and edit and edit.  Wish I could go make it go faster.  We just did a bunch of hiring and that will help in the medium-term.

>>>Has there been any thought about adding a Hobie rudder to the OJ?  I am thinking the rudder from an H18 would be a good fit.
<>>>>>>

I'm not a huge Hobie Cat rudder fan, but part of the fun of building the boat yourself is that you can experiment with that sort of thing!  I think a Hobie 18 rudder would be a little too small for the OJ.  (It has only one rudder, after all.)

>>>>For land transportation you can, obviously, disassemble and trailer the OJ.  Would it be able to handle remaining assembled and being tilted on a trailer?  The tilting is to reduce the width so you can leagaly tow it.  Leaving it assembled would drastically reduce launch time.
>>>>>>>

I've thought of that, and the idea is appealing.  But recall the OJ is twelve feet wide overall (part of the secret sauce that makes it so fast).  Tilted to fit within the 8'6" trailering limit, it would be 11 feet high on the trailer (if you include the height of the trailer itself)!

This year we fitted the boat with ratchet straps for the beam connectives.  Extensive tests showed this to be as strong as the 1/8th-inch nylon lashings, and it takes a fraction of the time.  The OJ now takes about as long to rig from a standing-start as a Hobie Cat.  The Hobie's hull and tramp stay assembled on the trailer of course, but its mast and rigging take ten times longer than the OJ's lateen rig, so they come out about the same.

 

>>
>Finally, on catamarans the trampoline is an important part of the structure of the boat.  Getting it properly taught has a significant effect on boat performance.  It helps keep the boat rigid so there is minimal wasted energy in the different parts "moving" around.  Does the trampoline on the OJ serve this function in addition to being a good area for the crew or is the connection of the hulls to the crossbeams rigid enough?
>>>

We sailed the boats briefly without trampolines.  This was workable, and the assembly was more than stiff enough, but it was not especially comfortable for the crew.

At first the tramps were laced on, which took a lifetime to do.  Now we've fitted tracks to the hulls so that the tramps are slid into place, then tensioned with a quick spiral lacing.  It takes minutes.  I'm sure the OJ is stiffer with a tramp than without, but it certainly didn't feel flimsy without.

Here we are back in 2014, using the lashing method.  If you could keep the boat rigged all summer, this would be ideal.  

Outrigger Sailboat Kit

Outrigger Sailboat Kit

Outrigger Sailboat Kit

Outrigger Sailboat Kit

Outrigger Sailboat kit

Outrigger Sailboat Kit

RE: Outrigger Junior

I'm one of the BETA builders John referred to.  For a brief period last year, CLC offered two partially built prototype OJs for sale on the website. I ventured over to Annapolis to take a look and bought one on the spot. What I got was two assembled but unfinished hulls, assembled outriggers, mast, centerboard and rudder, a pile of wood pieces and a set of drawings.  I also got a manual--not the manual I hasten to add. It was a manual for a Shearwater kayak to explain basic building techniques, and John assured me the OJ manual would be available before I finished (dig, dig). I hauled all this to Richmond and set up shop in a rented unheated garage in November last year.

I'm a first time builder but have accumulated a fair amount of woodworking knowledge over the years. No experience with fiberglass and epoxy though.  I read a lot of posts on this forum and learned a lot, especially from Lazlo. I viewed Moonchaser's slideshow of his dory build at least a dozen times and never ceased admiring his technique and creativity. And of course I got a lot of help from John. I hope that my feedback to him was of enough use to compensate for the pestering.

I finshed up this October and got in a few sailing days on Swift Creek Reservoir near Richmond VA.  I have a lot of sailing experience, but not recently in a daysailer and never in a multihull. This boat is very responsive. You can lift the ama easily in 6 knots of wind, and in puffy shifty winds on a lake you really have to pay attention. The acceleration in a puff is thrilling. It requires not a little agility to sail--if, for example, you linger too long on the starboard side when tacking to port tack you will be swimming.

I'm very happy how it turned out.  I thank Lazlo for the tip on using carbon infused epoxy on the bottom. I plan to be at Okumefest in the Spring.

RE: Outrigger Junior

   Many thanks, John, for your proposal. I will contact you directly.

David, this is such a beautifull boat! Georgous! This will make me hesitate if I keep the wood varnished or if I put a nice white paint on it...

Anyway, in order to occupy my waiting, I had made a small model...

 

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LPDWsrLup20/VnZnGk7YDQI/AAAAAAAALII/74QaAs95kww/s320/2.JPG[/img]

 

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-29ixzvj3ffM/VnZnGcaoW0I/AAAAAAAALIE/VHJP6uvi6w8/s320/3.JPG[/img]

 

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Uh6W2i2xF54/VnZnHF7dM9I/AAAAAAAALIU/x-CF1sNs8x0/s320/4.JPG[/img]

 

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q-HN4Vutn6s/VnZnHhzr0yI/AAAAAAAALIc/JswEd09WzUw/s320/5.JPG[/img]

 

 

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

   

RE: Outrigger Junior

David,

Beautiful job of finishing the build. Makes me real glad that I'm not bringing anything to Okoumefest for judging in the Small Craft category. I'd have to surrender right now. That black and white scheme is very striking.

Looks like you're using cam cleats instead of lashings or ratchet straps. How are those working out?

And, in the spirit of linguistics demonstrated earlier in this thread, I got that Kinamwe is in the Chuukese language from Micronesia and that it means peaceful, but what's Lien? A proper name? Is your boat named after someone?

Looking forward to seeing you and your boat in May,

Laszlo

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

Kentaro,

Nice little model. Even more than on the real boat, I think you need a clear port in the sail :-)

Laszlo

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

Kentaro:

Thank you for your comment. I too started out thinking I would finish the boat bright, but as I worked at filling the weave and fairing the hulls it became apparent that I wouldn't get the quality I needed for a varnish finish. That allowed me to switch to mixing microballoons with the epoxy to fair the hulls, another tip I credit to Lazlo. The result isn't perfect, but it easily passes the 10 foot test. I've also decided that I like the look of a mostly painted boat with some touches of brightwork. Somehow makes the varished elements stand out more.

Nice little model. My only critique--and please take this in the spirit in which it is offered--is that you appear to have made the mast vertical. The actual boat's mast is canted forward. I won't delve into the physics, but this allows for a shorter (and therefore stiffer) mast for the same size sail and also raises the boom higher when it tacks over the vaka.

On the subject of models, I attach below a pic of a model of a traditional Micronesian proa, which parenthetically has a very raked mast. My son commissioned this for me while serving as a Peace Corps volunteer on the island of Satawan in the Mortlock Islands municipaity of Chuuk State, Micronesia. His posting there got me interested in proas, which lead me eventually to John at CLC  (via links to Madness) and now my own proa-inspired sailing outrigger canoe.

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

Lazlo:

Thank you. Your appraisal is very much appreciated given your unknowing assistance in this build and your well-deserved reputation on this forum.

The straps around the akas are simple cam straps form Strapworks. There is no ratcheting feature but they can be pulled quite tight and stay tight. John said ratchet straps in his post but I know that he's actually using cut down cam straps that CLC sells to strap kayaks on car racks.

Kudos to you for identifying the language of the name as Micronesian--most people incorrectly guess Hawaiian. It's technically Mortlockese (see post above to Kentaro) which is a dialect of Chuukese. Lien, I am told, is the traditional beginning of any boat name, and since all boats are feminine there it translates as Miss (or Ms. to properly westernize the usage). One could argue over the correct translation of Kinamwe, but I choose to say Miss Serenity. I asked my son and his fiance, who met in the Peace Corps in Chuuk, to suggest a name and I heartily approved their suggestion.

I have one issue I'd like to run by you--paint blisters on the decks.  They are pinhead size bubbles that are dry when pierced and extend down through the primer to the epoxy surface. These appeared six to eight weeks after the paint was applied.  The decks were clear of anything resting on the surface. We had a three-day period of cool temperatures, cloudy skies and drizzel, at the end of which there were a lot of blisters on both hulls. Most discussions of blisters I have read focus on osmosis or adhesion problems from improper surface prep.  i don't think that's whats happening here because each blister is limited to the area of a pinhead and there is no gelcoat underneath. The cause that seems most logical to me was offered in a post on the Wooden Boats forum that said the solvent in polyurethane paints leaves microscopic pores in the paint as it evaporates. In cool weather the pores absorb water that then expands in the sun and pushes up the blister.  The recommended solution was to apply wax to the cured surface to fill the pores--a step I failed to carry out this Fall. Any thoughts on this?

David

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

 Great looking boat David!  The OJ is on my list of finalists so I have a few questions:

1.  Any guess regarding how much the main hull weighs?  Seems like it will be pretty heavy to cartop single handed.

2.  How long are the spars?  They appear longer than the boat.

3.  How long does it take you to rig and launch?  Do you do it solo? 

The part of me that raced Lasers in college really wants to build the OJ, but the practcal grey haired part of me is concerned about logistics.  I would store the boat disassembled in my garage and transport using the bed/overhead racks on my truck.  Nearly all the launch sites in my area are boat ramps so I would have to find an open (grass?) area to assemble then use two(?) carts to roll down to the water.  I need to be able to assemble and launch single handed.  Seems to me that this will be a lengthy process.  Ay thoughs would be helpful.  Thanks      

RE: Outrigger Junior

Mark:

I haven't weighed the big hull (Vaka in general terminology for outrigger boats) but it's easily 100#--more than I can lift myself at age 64, and certainly more than I could lift onto a rack.  I suppose that if you had the headroom in your garage you could rig a line and pulley system to lift it on and off, but then you'ld have to recruit help at the launch site. You need to seriously consider a trailer.

Here's what I do.  I joined a sailing club that has property down at the nearest lake. I bought a Trailex SUT450 trailer which is designed for catamarans. Add cradles and the trailer easily handles both hulls and all the rest of the gear for traveling. You could load and unload the disassembled pieces yourself if you wanted to store them under cover. I wanted to be able to launch the assembled boat from the trailer, so I fabricated sliding extensions that would allow the trailer to handle the width of the assembled boat.  It works ok, but because the vaka plus the mast, yards, sail and benches is significantly heavier than the ama (smaller hull), the weight on the trailer is uneven and deflects the crossarms.  I'm working on a different setup with the sales director at Trailex that looks promising. He's hoping for orders when CLC starts selling the boat so I'm his beta tester as well.

I haven't timed my setup but I would guess about an hour. That doesn't count moving the hulls off the trailer since I don't do that. The tedious part of setup is lacing the trampolines, and that would go much faster if you adopt John's new system. The downside is cost. The netting alone for the tramps is close to $500, and John's track system will add significantly to that.

The yard and boom are both 20', which is 5' longer than the boat. They are connected at the tack, and the sail is tied through grommets along the foot and luff so you don't remove it after sailing--just tie it all up as a long package.  The weight is manageble. I ordered a long bag from CLC's sailmaker since I park the assembled boat outside for the season.

 

David

RE: Outrigger Junior

David,

The paint blisters - that was pretty much exactly what I was going to suggest. It sounded like contamination and the most likely contaminant in your situation would have been water. Sounds as if you've got it nailed.

Good luck,

Laszlo

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

 I have a dream... The plans for the Junior Outrigger are finally ready and available, AND I have plenty of time to built it...

In the meantime, I try to think...

I am a bit afraid by the big sail. as I am not a great sailor...  Would it make sense if we added a second ama, in order to  make it a trimaran ? May be it is stupid because there is no need for it, or it would be to heavy ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RE: Outrigger Junior

áááWow and wow. This is a beautiful boat, some of the nicest lines I have seen on those hull shapes. Kentaros comment to add a hull and make it a tri is very valid and would be easy to achieve. Down side is longer beams to transport. Also I noticed on the seat side that when heeled over that it is close to the surface. Was wondering if instead of the blunt end being exposed to chop and waves could a ski bow be fashioned into it's design? That way if it heels too far in a gust it would give some lift and possibly save a tip. Lastly, and like others have mentioned "I want one" but can not see plan prices anywhere? Living in Oz shipping a kit would be cost prohibitive, I would however be able to get the parts needed CNC cut from plans. Please let me know if this option exists. I have searched many and varied proa and tri designs and has fallen heavily for this one. I can already envisage ways that I would modify her so that I could switch between proa and tri if wanted as well as ways to make her fold for trailers. An absolutely beautiful design that with a little tweaking to make available as a proa or a tri design could appeal to a much broader user base. Still congrats on an already amazing boat, and please think about selling me some plans.

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