You should be concerned about 29 knot gusts, especially in an open unballasted boat.

If the tide and the wind are opposed to each other, the chop will build. I've been in 28-knot winds when the wind and river flow were opposed and the chop was 3 feet with whitecaps.

The Kent Narrows act as a tide constrictor, so you could easily have a very fast flow. If the wind decides to blow right through the Narrows, the chop could be impressive. Timing is everything.

Be safe,

Laszlo

   I'm assuming you are talking about doing it this week.  I don't see any forecast winds that high.  Up to 20 kts. gust at times, but westerly for the most part.  That means a lot of the sail will be in the lee of Kent Island, which will help.  One thing, absolutely get the tide tables and time the passage in Kent Narrows to go with the tide current (not tide level...look for time of maximum flow, not level).  That tide can rip in there, and you will likely have to row when in the wind shadow, and powerboats will not cut you any slack. Also, it's getting colder later in the week, so be ready with fleece and wind protection.

I'd do it, but I have a fair bit of strong weather sailing and a bit of a masochistic streak.  :-)

   Thanks for info. One more question ? What is best online site for tide and current info. Also wind forecasts?  I am assuming I will be going through Kent Narrows coming from the north. 

Drew

I use iTide on my phone and Windguru on the web, bothe are free and very mobile. Weatherunderground use to be good but it's not as user frendly as it once was. SEEYA Jack  

A whole year of tides for Kent Island Narrows, including flow speeds

   Thank you Lazlo and sawdust!

Drew

  On Friday, 10/16/2015, my 36 year old son and I set sail, in the NE Dory,  from Shipping Creek MD into Eastern Bay. Our course was set for the Wye River, about 7.5 miles south east. Winds were coming from NW at 12-15 knots. Beautiful downwind sail to the Wye except for about the last 1.5 miles. Wind freshened to upper teens and sea was at about 2 1/2 foot chop. I had to ride the waves down their crest and then sea would gather in stern and ride down again. Speed of craft was about 6.5 mph. It was fun but seemed somewhat dangerous. 

We then sailed the 16 miles around the island which was beautiful and unremarkable from a sailing perspective. We we made the turn to go back up Eastern Bay to Kent Narrows the wind had picked up it seemed and seas were close to 3 feet. Call me a wimp, but I made the call to reverse course and go back to the Wye River and beach a the boat. Winds during entire trip from north west. A very kind gentleman drove us back to the Hilton at the Narrows. Ate some crabs and called it a day. 

Saturday we set sail through the Narrows with our target the Choptank River and Cambridge. Great downwind sailing all morning. By a little after noon sea and winds picked up to the point of me looking a waves higher than my head and major effort to keep from getting swamped. Managed to get to a Marina/ bar right in Sherwood MD, a little west of St. Michaels. As I brought the boat into land, about 300 yards out I lost focus for a second and brought the bow around to where we experienced a violent jibe which resulted in the starboard side going under before we could shift weight. We took on about 4 inches of water which we promptly bailed. Got to shore and said our prayers!

My son and I will cherish this trip for ever; but just wondering if we were pushing the envelope for this small boat and just got away with it?  Would love opinion from Anyone who has experience with the bay and can tell me if maybe a 2-3 foot sea is crazy to be in with a NE dory?

Drew

Drew.

My father was a Naval aviator and frequently quoted the old saw "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots,  There are no old bold pilots."  When doing things that can conceivably kill you, discretion is the better part of valor.

That being said, the NE Dory has an incredibly seaworthy hull form.  Under oars with someone to bail, I would consider myself safe (not necessarily comfortable) as long as the crests of the waves weren't being cut off by the wind.

Under sail is another case entirely.  Any open sailboat under sail is subject to being knocked down and swamped---and eventually will be.  We all have momentary lapses of concentration when cold and tired.  The NE Dory has sufficient floatation to be righted and bailed out in moderate conditions.  I suspect that recovery might be much more difficult with wind and 3-foot seas.

The only open boat that I have sailed extensively is an Amesbury skiff, a related but much less seaworthy hull form than the NE Dory.  When conditions became uncomfortable for me, I always wrapped the sail around the mast and boom and unstepped the mast, daggerboard, and rudder.  I knew I could safely manage the boat under oars.

Be advised that I have no experience of the local conditions in Chesapeake Bay (though I really like the food).  My sailing experience is from Block Island, Rhode Island to Portland, Maine, with most of it in Narragansett and Buzzards Bays.

Cheers,

Dick

2 words - Southwester Dory.

As usual, Lazlo, you cut right to the heart of the issue.  I agree whole heartedly.

Cheers,

Dick

Pa   So clearly the Southwest Dory would be more suited for what I was trying to do. But is it really that much of a difference?  What would make it so and are there any modifications( such as covering bow) that could be done to NE to better accommodate these conditions ?

What I also wonder is it the boat or my lack of sailing  ex perience that made it seem near impossible to go north with the 2 1/2  ft seas and NW winds at say 18 knots. It felt like it would take 5 hours to go 7 miles because of the tacking required. 

Would the small hp motor on a SW take a SW NORTH against those winds. The tide going out but getting close to low tide. 

Appreciate these comments as no real sailing people close by. 

Drew

   Clark,

No it wasn't just you.  those were challenging conditions.  As you discovered, fun downwind can turn into "holy crap" upwind pretty darn fast.  Once you know what to expect, planning, reefing, looking for wind shadows, playing currents can do a lot, but upwind in that weather would have meant some real work in any small boat.  You obviously made it, probably learned a lot, and weren't too bad to begin with, in boathandling if not sailing per se.  One key is to reef early and reef for the gusts, so if it's 12 knots gusting to 18 but you know you will be overpowered at 15 even though it is "mostly" ok at 12, go ahead and reef. You'll stand up, not be as overcanvassed for the gusts and generally have more control.

I know I found out with my keelboat that bashing into that Chesapeake chop by motor can be damned uncomfortable, even in a seaworthy 5 ton boat.  It may have taken longer, but I learned to accept the tacks, the extra miles and time of sailing (properly reefed) or at least motorsailing, in exchange for more comfort and real safety compared to bashing away at it.

That kind of chop can really make tacking a challenge, though.  You lose way more quickly when you hit the chop, so timing is everything. Even then, I've been on the Belvidere Shoals north of the Bay Bridge with chop from every direction and couldn't get my Tartan 30 about, so I resorted to "wearing ship", where you tack by bearing off, jibing (carefully) and coming back up on the other tack.

In a shallow draft, you can sometimes play with the margins, snuggling close to windward shores to get some shelter from the wind or sea. Also, the tidal currents tend to be less in the shallows due to the viscous drag of the water on the bottom. But that isn't always in the cards.

   Sawdust,

Everything you said made good sense. But, at risk of embarrassment, how do you reef the mail sail on the NE Dory when it is tied to boom and mast with lashings. We did bring in the jib and would love to know how to reduce square footage on the main sail. Maybe there is an upgrade I need?

Again, thank you for all advice!

There is such an upgrade. You'll need a mast track, slides and reef points on the sail, a main halyard, topping lift and down and out hauls. The sail can be left tied to the boom. Nothing a few hundred dollars cant fix. It'll be a much safe rig for windy conditions  SEEYA Jack 

Clark,

As to the comparison between the NE Dory and the SW Dory.   The SW Dory is mostly decked over with cockpits.  It's not really that open a boat and much safer.

Regards,

Dick

   The standard sloop upgrade kit would not be sufficient by itself to reef the sail. Reef points and other mentioned hardware would be required. For CLC guys, what would that be. It seems this could be $400 plus upgrade?

On the subject of reefing the sloop, don't forget the geometry is such that the outhaul has to be undone before the sail can be reefed. This sail shape isn't so easy to reef as a result. Dorymen had multiple sails/mast combos to choose from rather than bothering with reefing, just bringing the one they wanted bundled up on their shoulder. 

Loved your story.  I thnk you learned a lot and made some great memories. I lived in Claiborne for15 years and know how rough it can get out there. Upwind in waves is  always a challenge. Plan on the tacks or wait it out. Reef early.    

Drew,

There's 2 ways to handle conditions like that - spend lots of money and effort on the boat, sail rig and your skills to try and make it safe or just sit it out until the wind drops to where you know you and your boat can handle it.

If you always take the 2nd choice, you'll never develop as a sailor. If you always take the first choice, one day you'll get bit. You need to find the balance that lets you face challenging conditions on safe terms, but be willing to stay on shore when it's too rough.

In this adventure, you started the thread asking "What's too rough?". You made the decision to go out, got bounced around a bit and made it back safe. Now you're the guy we can ask, "What's too rough?". You know yourself and your boat better than you did before, and you're in a better position to decide when it's safe or not, especially since you were asking if you just got away with it through luck.

It seems to me that you've found your balance. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

Laszlo

   I can say that 18 knots; wind opposite tide and resultant chop of at least 2 1/2 feet and water temps in low 60's made an outside limit for me.  In the summer with water temps higher I might try a little tougher conditions. This will sound dramatic but I feel this experience has taught me the "soul" of the boat. Some of its frail but most is strong! It's quite humbling to look to your port and then look up and see a sailing vessel with a helm about 20 feet high roaring past you at some speed that makes your 6 knots look like you are standing still. 

   Sounds like others have the right scoop on setting up the NE sloop for reefing.  I got the lug rig for my Skerry ordered with reef points for this very reason.  If you can dope out the lines and rigging, you can likely get a sailmaker to add reef points, a reef tack and clew tack with reinforcing as needed, for less than you might think.  If you are in the Annapolis area, there's lots around. I'd have to stare at the gunter rig a bit, but it should be not too hard to sort.

Don't forget jiffy reefing for when the wind comes up suddenly or conditions don't work out the way you thought they would. It's a very cheap insurance policy.

Laszlo