The value of help

Hi Everyone, 

 

My 13 year old son and I are building a passagemaker dinghy.  Unread somewhere (perhaps this web site) that about 100 project hours is a good guess for a passagemaker. My son thinks that since we are working side by side - we should be done in about 50 hours, I told him that in this case I think 1 +1 pretty much equals 1.  Then my brother in law told him that he thinks the opposite is true, that 1 + 1 really equally 2 1/2 or 3.  

So let me ask what you all think. . . If (and I know it's a big 'if), if I could build this boat in 100 hours, how would having another set of hands effect that math? 

 

Michael's dad


8 replies:

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RE: The value of help

Experience wise, I can only speak from my being a builder/contractor/carpenter having help.  You never cut the time in half by having another helper.  Maybe reduce time about 25-30%.  As far as the building of a CLC kit, I've just worked by myself. There aren't a lot of sub assemblies where you can be doing one part, and helper doing another part, so my guess is everything will balance out, and it will take 100% of the suggested time.  But so what, other than the excitement and anticipation of the launch, enjoy the experience.

RE: The value of help

As I 'help' myself, it typically takes me about 120% of the normal time.  A lot of this depends on how constructive or destructive the help is- whether it is yourself "helping' yourself, or another person helping you.

I hope this comes across with clarity.  It was simpler before I started to interject additional comments.

Did I already put salt in the salt in the soup, or.....?

RE: The value of help

i have had my kids help me. 

no difference in time...actually makes things go a bit slower in most cases as now you will spend time coordinating your helper and there are very few tasks that anything but another well-trained set of hands can make a difference with.

that said, the fun and learning on how to build a boat is easily doubled.  when i had two of my kids helping we tripled the fun.

do be careful with helpers (young or otherwise) to make sure that you are protecting them from dust, exposure to epoxy/paint fumes and other shop hazards (saws/knifes, etc).  depending on your child's level of maturity, there may be some tasks that are best performed by yourself.  

what i found...wiring up a hull....easy and fun for the kids.  epoxy work and sanding....a bit more care.  fittings and some paint/varnish work a little less risky.   keeping the shop organized with kids around is pretty critical.

hs

RE: The value of help

An extra pair of hands along with a different point of vue is invaluable. The actual time saved would be hard to measure because there is alot of wait time involved with the stitch and glue proceedure. After assemblies are bonded or coated with epoxy you will need to wait usually over night for it to cure.

More importantly you get to spend time with your child building something beatiful and planning adventures. Don't be in too much of a hurry.

RE: The value of help

These boats are designed and kitted for one-off home assembly, not for industrial-style minimum time/labor. The big difference in speed between builders is caused by differences in skill, motivation and lack of distractions. Insofar as a helper can affect these factors, they will reduce the overall build time.

Tell your kid to go to the library and get the book The Mythical Man-Month. He'll learn that he's fallen into the oldest management trap there is  - if it takes 1 woman 9 months to have a baby, 9 women working together can do it in a month. (I wonder why if it's called a man-month they always use the pregnant woman example to refute it).

Anyway, the real root of the problem seems to me not to be a lack of understanding of industrial manufacturing processes. Rather, it's not enjoying the building for its own sake. Once you get into it, it'll be so much fun that you'll keep finding reasons to take a little longer. For example. If you work more slowly filling the weave, you can end up with a lot less sanding later. If you take more time to form the fillets to minimum required thickness, the boat will be lighter, you'll use less epoxy and it will look better. And then there's the whole field of decorating - rice paper designs, onlays, inlays, etc.

So enjoy the build and don't worry about the time. The boat will be ready when its ready. And if the kid gets bored, send him out to cut the grass while you build the boat :-)

Have fun,

Laszlo

 

 

RE: The value of help

As I've stated in other threads, my son recently built an Oxford Shell from plans (I had previously built a rowboat from plans and a Chesapeake 17LT from a kit). I was a helper (and occasional mentor). I know I saved him time over him doing it alone because I was able to coach him through various steps - but it probably took him (us) at least the estimated amount of time.

We had so much fun together, I wish it had taken longer! It was a great bonding experience, and one neither of us will soon forget.

RE: The value of help

Well since its your kid, that 1+1 time oughta equal a zillion. I don't think the time factor or savings sought is relevant here. Even if it took longer its still a great time .

That said it'll probably work out they in stitching and fairing the edges you save no time. In the laborious sanding you could indeed cut it in HD with two random orbitals going at it.

Pete

RE: The value of help

Well since its your kid, that 1+1 time oughta equal a zillion. I don't think the time factor or savings sought is relevant here. Even if it took longer its still a great time!!!

That said it'll probably work out they in stitching and fairing the edges you save no time. In the laborious sanding you could indeed cut it in half with two random orbitals going at it.

Pete

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