epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I am a new builder once my plans arrive.As i am trying to have all my materials on hand i am having trouble finding the right epoxy.Is the epoxy used to glue the hull together different then what coats the fiberglass cloth?No one who sell the product around here knows anything about it,and unfortunately i dont know any one to ask.

25 replies:

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RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I'm still a bit of a green boatbuilder myself, but believe I may have some answers for you. - I am not sure what boat you are building, so just to clarify my comments below are in reference to S&G building.

It is the same epoxy, but when using it for tacking or fileting (i.e. Glueing the hull) you will thicken the epoxy using something like wood flour or silica.I used Silica for tacking - and wood flour for filets.  When glassing you will use just the epoxy itself (un-thickened)

You might want to check out the MAS Economy Kit - it includes it all including "self" measuring pumps for the Epoxy Resin and Hardener (One pump of each, takes the gueswork out of getting the right mix ratio) - it also comes with the silica and woodflour as well.

 Hope this helps.

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I am in the middle of my first project and can identify with your question because I had the same experience. I'm using an oxford shell CLC kit that includes the MAS Economy Kit that Kpperry810 refers to. His description is correct and is detailed in the instructions provided. It is my understanding that there are other products out there but this one seems to be one of the best. I am quite pleased with the results so far. There are many old postings on this site that address the epoxy process. The veteran builders have given some great recommendations and advice.

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I would get the epoxy from CLC.  What they sell is good and at a good price.  There phone service is excellent and will be able to help.  Make a list of what you need and order all at once.  Cloth too.

Kim

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I know buying it from clc would be easier but the shipping cost got me thinking i could probably built another boat if i could find my materials here.I am in New Brunswick Canada.My true question is,is there a difference in an epoxy and the resin.Everywhere i go they try to sell me the resin.

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Don't buy your epoxy from CLC.  No offense to the wonderful folks at CLC but their prices on epoxy just aren't that good.  They aren't particularly expensive, but you can find epoxy at much lower prices.  If you search on my posts, I put one out there about a year or year and a half ago about a brand that was about half the price as the System 3 and MAS that most of us have used.  The epoxy is DMC and is from the folks who supply System 3 so we know it's good quality stuff, it just has a slightly different formula and is sold as their "house brand".  You can find it at fiberglass wharehouse.

FrankP

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I feel differently about it.

I don't mind paying a little more for products from CLC.  I guess I consider it as part of the cost of the outstanding support they give me as their customer.

The opportunity to be CLC's guest here on their Builder's Forum is one example of that added value. 

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

In these days of cheap Chinese imports I am very very leery of bargain basement pricing.  Excellent example is Sears Craftsman.  You can't get more American than Craftsman used to be years back. Now 50% of Craftsman is imported.   Brand name doesn't mean what it used to be.  If someone has epoxy half the price I would be leery of quality.  From my exp. with John and staff I will trust that  he carries the good stuff.

Kim

 

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Not that my opinion is even worth 2 cents, but from someone who has used both, I have my opinion.  I use epoxy system that I get from US Composites known as their 635 which works wonderfully.  It isn't as clear as Mas, but no more amber than the varnish is.  Mas sets quicker in cooler temps which scares me in FL summers, and is pretty idiot proof.  But the cost is not worth what it offers to me when I can save money on 635 to build my next yak.  What i use isn't a name brand, but it isn't an import either.  What it is, is a commercial grade cost effective epoxy.

Kev

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

My local chain hardware store (a bit like your Home Depot, I think) has on its shelves 'Fibreglass Resin' at a pretty cheap price, but on casual  inspection it turns out to be polyester resin.   Time was when that was widely used - my first catamarans built in the 70's were S&G using polyester resins and MEKP hardeners, as epoxy was hardly heard of then, and in the same price bracket as Unaffordium, but times have moved on.

The inexperienced - no insult intended, we all start off somewhere - need to be aware that resin ain't necessarily resin! 

Wordsmith

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

refusing to give up the search and order online I found what i beleive i need.a small supply shop can get me the west system brand.Any feedback before i purchase.Any and all help is much apreciated

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Take a look at online boating supply stores to see what is available. Even if you don't want to order from them, it is an easy way to find out what to look for and get a feel for cost. In the US there are a fair number of West Marine (formerly Boat US) brick and mortar stores where you can purchase epoxy, varnish and other building and finishing materials. My experience with them is that their prices are often high enough that it is as cheap, or cheaper to order online and pay shipping, but your mileage may vary. Obviously, take a look at what CLC recommends and uses for their kits. Take a look at websites for Jamestown Distributors, Noah's Marine Supply and West Marine.

Read all the "Tips for Boat Builders" on this site regarding working with fiberglass and epoxy. Look at the "Shop Tips" on the sites of other builders. Rob Macks at Laughing Loon has a nice article on transparent glass layup and other useful tips. Rod Tait at orcaboats has many useful shop tips on his site. One Ocean Kayaks has a lot of useful information including this page about tests run on various epoxies.

Good luck with your project!

--

Ogata (eric)

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I've used West System and what CLC has.  Go with whatever is the best price. 

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

kardan,

What you need is an epoxy resin and matching hardener. Brands that are suitable for the kind of boats built by CLC are (in order of price, from lowest to highest):

Marinepoxy, System 3, System 3 Silvertip, MAS and West.

The prices are based on CLC and 2 other amateur boatbuilding internet-based suppliers for 1.5 gallons (1 gallon resin, 1/2 gallon hardener).

CLC sells only the epoxies at the higher end of the price range, but these are also higher quality epoxies. They result in higher modulus laminations and they do not blush.This is better for beginners because it means easier builds and seams which are more tolerant of beginners' mistakes.

On epoxies carried by all 3, CLC is the highest price, though the MAS economy kits also include pumps, woodflour and cab-o-sil, which the other dealers make you buy separately.

West was the most expensive, more expensive than anything sold at CLC. A chemist that I've talked to says that it's not worth the price difference.

For what it's worth, my personal preference these days is for Silvertip.

Good luck,

Laszlo

 

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Does the west come out as well as the rest?costwise I can buy it here at half the price as what it is on the site.The west is the only one i"ve found.

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

I am happy with the west system.  I too got a deal 'at cost' from a dealer, which is why I went with it.  If you got a deal on it go for it.

 

Kim

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

If you go with West System, stick with the 207 hardener.  It's slower to cure, but no blush.  The 206 with blush like crazy and the finish is not as clear as the 207.

 Ross

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

was thinking of using 205, its cold here and i wanted to start as early as possibble,what do you think8-15degrees celsius by the time i start hopefully

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

The 205 probably blushes more than 206 since it's a fast hardener.  The West product info indicates that they don't recommend 205 or 206 for clear coating.  The 207 is what they recommend.  I used 207 in the basement during the winter, and it was slow to cure at around 65F, but not having to deal with the blush was a real plus.  Is it possible to heat your work area a bit during your epoxy work?

 Ross

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

i was thinking of only using the 205 for the gluing to get my structure and i was thinking by the time thats done the temperature will be warmer to do the glassing.I work quite a bit so work time is only a couple of hours every couple of days for now.

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Oh, that's different.  The 205 will be great for gluing.

 Ross

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

One more thing.  If you end up getting both 207 and 205 hardeners, they each use different resin/hardener ratios, so be careful when you're mixing that you use the correct ratio.

Ross

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

thanks guys i ll keep that in mind

RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Hey Lawman, welcome to the site!

Ben is in Mexico for a week, but he will be checking these boards frequently. I'll direct him to this post as he can help best with this question.

 

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thomas

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RE: epoxy and fiberglass resin?

Hey Lawman, welcome to the site!


Ben is in Mexico for a week, but he will be checking these boards frequently. I'll direct him to this post as he can help best with this question.

 

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thomas

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