Recessed deck lines

Here is your challenage if you should accept;  I am looking for a way to make recesses for my deck lines.  I would like to use the brackets that most composite type yaks use, but would consider other ideas.  I have thought about using a core Box bit, but that won't give me any slope on the sides for drainage, same using a dado blade on the table saw.  I prefer recess mounts because of less things to get caught on in a self rescue.  But need strong lines for the same reason.

So get your engineering minds working, sharpen those pencils and give me some ideas.

Kev 

 


22 replies:

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RE: Recessed deck lines

I have the full solution,and will use it on my next build (Shearwater 17) but alas cannot post photos on this site - I simply don't know how to - too old at 69 as the techno revolution has passed me by!  If you wish I can mail to you photos of my-mock-ups and components that I'll use (already made as fill-in tasks while at various stages of the current project).   Send me your mailing address to lbw@bmail.com.au and I will post some photos and words to you - maybe even a sample of the under-deck mount I've concocted.   No scams, no special offers for Viagra, etc., guaranteed - just another interested kayak builder pleased to be able to return the favour of helpful advice received over recent months.

Wordsmith   

RE: Recessed deck lines

Kev,

Here's a selection from a quick google for "recessed deck fittings". Click on pictures to go to the websites. Note that the last one is Eric Schade's page where he sells wooden fitting kits for $7.00 each. There are plenty more pages out there, but this should get you started. Google is your friend.

Have fun,

Laszlo

 

 

 

RE: Recessed deck lines

I am thinking you want the entire deck line to be recessed, right? But you do not want the "line groove" to hold water? What Lazlo has showed seems to be very viable answer, as I see the entire line, if recessed, would make it very difficult to use as advertised, unless you put tabs on the lines at several palces between fittings. If that is what you want, I would think a propper router bit with jig to make the groves about 3/4's as deep as the line, along with the recessed fittings and if done before laying glass and epoxy, there wouldn't be a problem of standing water in the grooves as long as you blew them out with air or dried them between outings. It would make a clean appearance.

RE: Recessed deck lines

I want to thank everyone so far.  Talking with Wordsmith has given me some ideas to work with, and Laszlo showed some nice things, but I guess I have not made my self clear.

I am looking for a way to make an elongated dish with tapered sides in which I can mount "VCP recess deck fittings" like most composite yaks have.  I am not wanting the lines themselves recessed, they would be useless.  I work to many water rescues for the triathalons, and swim meets in the area, not to mention guide trips with people in a panic.  I need to mount both perimeter rope, and shock cord lines for useage.  And I dont want to spend more on them than the cost of the wood I am using to get them (Buying inserts, or the engineering degree to understand what they are saying to make them).  And I like these connections because they make changing the lines quick and simple, which is something I have to do often between useage and this FL sun.

But keep coming up with ideas guys, we are getting closer.  And Yes Laslo, Google is our friend!!!

RE: Recessed deck lines

Kev how about doing a google search and posting a pic of what you are talking about if not what Lazlo suggested? No one can offer ideas to help if we do not know what you are talking about.

RE: Recessed deck lines

I'm with Fishbuster on this one... a picture of the PVC line rigging you intend to use will provide a much better way for us to offer suggestions.  

In the meantime, let me explain what I'm planning.  I'm just starting a retrofit of a strip deck on my NorthBay.  I never had deck lines on before, though I braided some out of nylon lines and reflective lines that I had intended to install before.  Back to my point... I am going to build padeye type line mounts, similar to what I use for my deck bungies.  The line will go through the deck at these points, to the underside of the deck.  I don't do a lot of rescues, but with some fiberglass reinforcement of the deck at those points the deck should be plenty strong enough to support my needs.  YMMV and all that, but I think it will be a cleaner design than extra equipment embedded in the deck.  You could also attach the lines to deck beams if you wanted to make sure you had enough strength.  Glued and screwed to the shears, that would definitely provide enough support for rescues.

FrankP 

RE: Recessed deck lines

Okay Guys, you win.  If you log on to my blog here http://kayakkev.wordpress.com/category/clc-posts/ you will see what I am wanting to do

RE: Recessed deck lines

Hard to tell, Kev, but it looks to me like most of those are just screwed into the hull.  If that's the case you could do a cup similar to the Laszlo posted and then just drill fill drill the stays into place. 

I suspect the ones without visible screws just screw in from the inside.  Either way installing should be pretty standard.  You can put a gasket on the inside if you want, or better, a silicon sealant or just glass and epoxy behind it if you're sure you never want it to come out again.

FrankP

RE: Recessed deck lines

Another thought, Kev.  Looking at your website, you've already created a channel your skeg wire, you could build the same kind of thing for the PVC line holders and you'd have a consistent look throughout your boat.  If you do it that way, you can just screw into the wood/epoxy of the channel and never have to worry about the screw going all the way through, so you wouldn't need any (extra) sealant on the inside of the boat.

FrankP

RE: Recessed deck lines

Here are some pics from Wordsmith on how he is doing his, if the pictures dont show, just log into my blog http://kayakkev.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/deckline-idea-from-down-under/ 

Deckline ideas

RE: Recessed deck lines

As kayakkev's posts and responses evolved I realised that I had got hold of the wrong end of the stick - his need was for recessed deck-lines: my solution (not) was for recessed (or concealed) fixing points under the deck!   Sorry, kk!   But it's nice to see my efforts on the site.

Wordsmith

RE: Recessed deck lines

And the Winner is... Laszlo!!!  I tried a variety of ideas (mine & others) And decided to keep it in the Schade family.  The yak design is Nick's, and the parts are Eric's.  We ordered 14 of them from Shearwater today.

So as the winner Sir Laszlo, you have your choice of one of Ogata's cats, or a big thank you from another anxious yakker.  That is unless Eric has secretly grown fond of his house guests.

Kev

RE: Recessed deck lines

Don't forget the cats come with 10 dollars instant cash!

Paddling around in the Treasure Island, Florida vicinity (Gulf Coast near St. Pete) this week with two CLC boats. Perhaps I'll have some pictures next week.

I finally committed to slots with webbing pulled through from inside for my Shearwater 16 deck rigging. Seems to be very strong and is working well so far. These boats really love the ocean.

Time to go paddling!

--

Ogata (eric)

RE: Recessed deck lines

Kev,

The cats are tempting, but I've already got 2. Glad to have been able to help. Eric's design is pretty elegant, especially seen in person. I'm sure you'll enjoy them.

Eric,

Christine the Skerry builder, who's posted here, also has a herd of cats. maybe she'd want some of yours.

Laszlo

 

RE: Recessed deck lines

Well, actually, I only just excaped from my "Home" (The Mews at Happy Bottoms) last week. The cats have taken control of the premises and I have been reduced to servant and Chief Litter Box Cleaner-Outer. It seems more likely that the cats were plotting to eliminate me than the other way round!

--

Ogata (eric)

RE: Recessed deck lines

Hey Eric,

I too live in St. Pete., I would love to see your yaks and maybe go for a paddle with you?  Ft DeSoto, Bay Pines, or Gandy are some of my favorites.  I hope to start laying glass on my Guillemot next tuesday (work comes first) so I will be in a composite (shame on me I know).

I am really interested in your webbing, and hatches.  Sorry, but my truck isn't big enough to carry any cats.

email me at kev_th@yahoo.com and I will give you my phone #

RE: Recessed deck lines

Ok, try going down this avenue.  These leash plugs are perfect, but you must find then large enough

 

 I stumbled on surfboard leash plugs.  If they were al little larger they would be perfect.  I did find leash plugs with a 1-5/8" OD which would be fine (I think), but they were a site in Australia and I could not connect with them.  These plugs are round but the interior  with a stainless pin is rectangular in shape.  

I have ordered  a bunch, but they are only a 1" OD.  Unless i can figure something out they are too small.  However, If you are looking for recesses for your deck rigging, explore this avenue. 

RE: Recessed deck lines

I used Eric's fittings on my wife's SW16h. They look real nice and are easy to slide over when doing a rescue. The only downside is that they do tend to collect dirt and they take a little extra care to refinish. 

RE: Recessed deck lines

Wow. lots of responses here and apologies if I'm duplicating someone's idea as I haven't read all. Lazlo got me going, though. Epoxy a 3/4 inch block under the deck to the shear(shaped). use a forstner bit to cut the pocket and router (or saw) a drain channel, then channels for the deck line. I think I would attempt to saw both and use a round rasp to finish and clean it up. Haven't done this myself, tho, so just how I'd start to approach it. Dave

RE: Recessed deck lines

Thinking a little more about it, I'd pass on the drain and line channels and just do a nice round over on the pocket. Simple. Dave

RE: Recessed deck lines

A very nice way to do flush, recessed or hidden deck line attachment points involves running some of the lines under the deck.  Al Anderson does this out at Betsie Bay Kayak and Mark Rogers does this on his front shock cord.  Mark's approach is simplest.  He drills his holes smaller then the diameter of the shock cords.  Then in threading the sock cord he peels back the outer layer, cuts off 1/2" or the interior rubber strands and pulls the cover back over the remaining strands.  You can twist the cover tight and crazy glue so you can thread the cord through the holes in the deck.  On the front deck Mark drills 6 holes for 3 parallel sock cord lines.  He starts at one hole. threads the cord through and ties a knot in the cord, then runs it across the deck to the corresponding hole and threads the cord through and under the deck.  He then take s the cord to the next hole toward the bow, threads it up to the top of the deck and then over to the corresponding hole and repeats this to the last set of holes and ties a knot under the deck to secure the cord.  Mark says the holes will not weep or leak water because the cord will seal the holes.

 

I prefer to make tunnels for my sock cord that runs under the deck.

I take a 3/8" x 3/8 length of soft wood, say 20".  I rout or plain a semi-circle chamfer on two edges so it is like bead moulding.  I cover a board a bit longer then the 20" form that I made with plastic.  I spray glue it down.  I spray glue the form to the plastic covered board and cover it with saran wrap or better even the wrap they use at Home Depot to bundle trim and other lengths of wood together.  You can get it at the UPS store. I cut strips of 9 oz glass tape and lay it up over the form with epoxy.  Three layers will do.  I then take two 22" strips of wood, say 3/8" x 3/8' covered in duct tape (as a release) and sandwich the layed up form between them.  This pulls the glass nice and tight and out to form what looks like a capital "U" in cross section.  After this cures I lay ot 2-3 layers of 9oz tape on a clean flat plastic surface all epoxied up and glue the tunnel that I formed and  just pulled off the form.  When it all cures I have a completely closed tunnel 20" long that can be cut into lengths.  Cut sections of the tunnel to the appropriate length and allow at least 3/4" on either side longer then you need, because you will fill the ends with epoxy putty to seal the tunnel.

If you were going to use this technique to run safety lines on top of the deck or even on the hull near the shear start by drilling 1/2" holes.  For deck lines you need two holes about 1-1/4" apart on center as the line goes from above the deck to under the deck (a line attachment point) to above the deck.  So your tunnel should be  no less then 2-1/2" long.  So you have drilled a set of holes in the deck.  Glue up the tunnel with epoxy filler mix.  After the tunnel sets, fill the 1/2" holes in the deck with epoxy putty.  Do this for every attachment point.  After your deck is all glassed and final sanded, drill a tiny pilot hole in the center of the 1/2" epoxy filled holes,  Increase the size of the hull a little at a time using 3 or 4 drills to drill  5/16" or 3/8" holes.  Don't punch through the tunnel. If you made the tunnel long enough you will not have any epoxy from the plugged ends in your way.  Lows sells a carbide 1/8" routing bit for cleaning tile grout in its tool section.  You will use this to break the underside edge so you can easily fish the line or sock cord.  If you want to see what this looks like on a boat got to Betsie Bay Kayak.  Do not do this on your boat until you have tried one practice run on a piece of scrap plywood.  

I don't get here often.  If you have questions email me at crspano@gmail.com  

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