John's write-up (see link below) was excellent, as usual, but there are a few different ways to make scuppered inwales.

http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boats-blog/inwales_for_plywood_boats.html

He opted for square spacers, which is great for an entry-level discussion of the subject.  I've also seen write-ups where they take a piece of wood that is wide enough to make two spacers, plus a saw kerf, and drill two holes in it to make the ends of the inside slot round.  You can take it one step further and angle your drill bit to ease the edges of the slot to reduce chafe on things like fender whips and oar lanyards.

A lot of time during John's example was spent spacing the parts perfectly around the breasthook, bulkheads, quarter-knees, etc.  He also tried at least two different sized spacers to make the spacers land right without a remainder.  Once someone spends that time to figure out the layout, the rest of us can just use that without the additional time wasted.  For example, I plan on building my Take-Apart Passagemaker with scuppered inwales, so I expect to invest that time, so it's not an impediment.

Now to actually address your question.  I can totally see this adding two whole days to the build or about 16 hours by the time you add the woodworking and the additional epoxy applications/cure time.

It took me about 120 hours to build my Eastport Pram, so 16 additional hours would add about 1/8th extra work or about 13%.  In my mind, the additional classic beauty and functionality makes that a sound investment.  Your mileage may vary.  I'll obviously do an in-depth write-up on my experience and of course will use John's write-up as a primer.

Chris

   We did it on our Skerry before there were any plans or instructions available, so we just had to figure it out.  I would guess the scuppered inwales combined with a few other minor modifications doubled our build time.  It is worth it though.  If we just wanted a boat, we would have bought one.  We wanted a project and this project has been very rewarding.

Hooper Williams - Brevard, NC 

Wow!  The scuppered inwales took almost as much time as building the rest of the boat?  That's a serious thing to consider.  Thanks for the feedback!  Besides fiddling with the spacing, may I ask what were some of the other aspects that soaked up so much time?

Thanks,

Chris

 Mainly the fact that I am a slow thinker.  It takes me a long time to work out the details on things like this.  A major problem was figuring out how to join the gunwales to the breastplates.  A lot of unseen or unnoticed modifications are necessary to pull that off.  Also, we chose to mill each spacer individually before installation to get nice curved ends. (after cutting each one from stock).  I had to invent and build a machine for that. Also, we gave each spacer a unique taper depending where it landed on the shear.  This, of course required numbering each spacer and keeping up with which one went where.  Probably overkill, but I had never even seen a stitch and glue boat, much less built one.  Having "official" instructions and/or a kit designed for your boat would eliminate most of the "thinking time" and eliminate unnecessary steps.  Here is a link to build pics up to our current stage:

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/49414332@N04/albums/72157645186993049

Hooper

Fabricating and installing the open gunwales will take maybe half again as much time as installing the stock gunwales, depending on your woodworking experence and skill.  It really isn't rocket science, just take your time and enjoy the project.  It should not double the build time!!   

I put them on my Skerry and my Sassafras 16 

On the Skerry I used individual blocks and on the Sassafrass I cut a one piece inwale with the spacers as an integral part.

You might also consider cuting a rabbit joint the length of the gunwale to cover the edge grain of the shear strake.

Skerry Build Link:

 https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipODJYZHl4I7rqPtIjGE4-uYsDEeWnYta3_5QKWK

Sassafras 16 Build Link:

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNA3A752XOrDFOI9Zw6eaY1UYFY5FO5ZtS7g-z5

Jacky

   Jacky's pictures were my main inspiration!

Hooper

Ah, so Hooper took the time to make his scuppered inwales compensate for the differential flare of the shear strake in the classic tradition.  That's awesome and will make it ten times more difficult.  Bravo!

My PM has neither breasthook nor quarterknees, so the design should make it considerably easier.  I had already planned on routing a rabbet on the shear strake to receive the inwale and cover the edge grain of the plywood.  My inwales will also be at a constant angle to the flare, so it will be considerably easier if not correct in the classic wooden boat fashion.

On lunch one day, I was able to cut out the outwale strips, then four after work sessions laminating the outwales in two parts on either side, then another lunch session using a router to ease the edges, so around six hours.  Using the 1.5x multiplier given above, I can easily see 10 hours of fiddling with the scuppered inwales without any thinking chair down-time, do-overs, etc.

The spacered inwale on the Peeler Skiff was very quick and easy to build.  We didn't rush and I guestimate it took us 3 days, counting the time for cutting and pre-drilling the blocks and witing for the epoxy to set.

We glued and screwed the blocks in place, pulled the drywall screws, glued and screwed the inwales in place, then pulled the screws and filled the holes with epoxy and wood flour.  Quick, simple and satisfying.  You'd be amazed at how much it stiffens the boat.  It did, however, add to the painting time.

Cheers,

Dick

  Doing the spaced inwales is worth the extra time.  It adds so much to the strength, utility and beauty.  I just finished a Peeler Skiff and it was pretty easy and quick to install the blocks and inwales.  Same as anything, a few hours of work and a day to cure until the next step, I did one side at a time.  I just glued mine, no drilling or screws, two or three checks in the cure process to make sure they dont slide out of alignment under the clamps.  And you will want to make sure that no thickened epoxy drips happen.  That is a nice touch to round over the ends of the blocks, that would take a bit more time especially if you have to make the custom "redneck tools"!  That made my day!  The plug making tool is a classic!  I think the most time spent on the inwale spacers for me was getting four coats of varnish on them sanding between coats.  A wooden paint stick wrapped with stikit paper worked great.  My "Yankee" custom tool!

   At what point in the build must the decision be made to either add this option or proceed without? Rouhgly 50% complete, 30% complete, 80% complete?

If this option must be added early on in the construction it might deter me somewhat as I won't have a good feel for the time required to complete the rest of the boat.  However, if it can be added later on or close to completion it will be easy to just wait and see how the rest of the build has progressed and decide then. 

Thanks for all the input.  I think knowing that I could expect as much as even 30 or so hours to add this option its still very reasonable commitment for a boat I'd plan on keeping for many many years.

   It would be best to make the decision before the breasthook goes on.  After that, it may be more difficult adapting to the assembled breasthook.

Hooper

   
Hope you decided to do the inner rails, adds a great look and are very functional.

As far as the time to build them, I built my dory (including inner rails, research, all finishing, bottom paint, and trailer work) in 4 months working almost all day almost every day and was in a hurry to complete it.  I wouldn't use time (though) as the factor whether to add the inner rails or not...as many builders have said "enjoy the build" and make it the way you want it.

You can also search "inner rails" and "inwales" here on the forum to find a lot of threads on this topic going back quite a while.  Worth the read!

Also, here is my boat build photo journal: 

https://picasaweb.google.com/114717787929554738224/BuildingWoodenBoatCLCNortheasterDory?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKCBzczm_aKs2wE&feat=directlink

As I went back and looked at where I started planning how to do the inner rails it was very early in the build, photo 77 then scroll thru them and you can see various spots where work was done on them. (NOTE: mine was built before there was an option for inner rails so my knees and breasthook are flat and the inner rails were blend-sanded to that angle as the rails fed into the knees and breasthook)

Let us know how it goes!

Curt

  Curt, 

You've put together a great photo documentary of the build.  Just capturing all the steps surely added to the build time.

One other question regarding the inwales, and this is for someone who has attended the boat building class or is knowledgeable about them.

Can the inwales be integrated if you plan to build the boat in the week long class?

Could not have happened in my Skerry class.  In fact, I didn't even have the option of cutting a rabbet on the rail to cover the edgegrain of the shear strake.  It is still a beautiful boat, and I'm very proud of it, but the one-week boatbuilding class simply didn't allow for customization.  Having said that, it might be worth checking with CLC or WoodenBoat now that CLC offers a factory option for scuppered inwales on some boats.

Hal

 Thanks for the kind words, yes it did take time for the photo journal but it was fun..and I'm still adding to it as things come along like a new rudder.

Agreed the inner rails are not done in class...from seeing the work completed in a few classes, the classes complete the basic hull including the outer rails which are required for strength of the plywood hull to be transported home.

To the point above about deciding, two points:

1) Which breasthook:  yes, agreed you should decide before you put on the OUTER rails whether you are going to do inner rails because (I believe) a different (not flat) breasthook is used if you are going to add inner rails.   (Personally I prefer the stock, flat breasthook even if you are doing inner rails but  that's a different discussion, if you'd like more discussion on which breasthook to use let us know.

2) When install breasthook:  to clarify, the breasthook is typically installed as part of the initial hull build,  using screws through the top plank into the breasthook, before the outer rails are put on.  The inner rails arent put on until after the outer rails are completed.

Curt

The idea of building a substantial part of the boat in such a short time thru the class appeals to me.  At home I'll have the distraction of wife and kids, work, and other responsibilities.  However, the lack of ability to customize it definitely doesn't.  For that reason I think I am just leaning towards building my own kit at home and I will just take my time and hopefully get complete it within a couple of summers.  Maybe I can take some days off here and there and devote 100% each day to the build and make some good progress.  The Northeast Dory is the perfect boat for my needs in terms of storage capabilities and towing due to its light weight, so I plan on this being my boat for many many years.  It's so light I could take it anywhere trailered with pretty much any car so I have no issue with spending extra time to customize it to my exact wants.

I've never built a boat before but I've done some wood and carpentry work.  Obviously carpentry and boat building are two different things but I'd expect that it will make it somewhat easier.  I've also been doing some small model kit boats (Dumas) to gain some experience in working with epoxy/framing/planking etc. on a much smaller scale.  Some may laugh but from what I'm reading and seeing about the process of building it seems like its quite similar albeit on a much smaller scale.  

  Regarding the breasthooks:  There are, of course, lots of ways to build anything.  I used the stock breasthooks, but I mounted them a little differently and modified them slightly to accommodate scuppered inwales.  Since I rabbeted the outwale to cover the top of the shear, I mounted the breasthooks a little higher than the instructions called for so they would remain flush with the outwales.  I imagine the said screws mostly missed the shear, but I'm pretty confident the structure is sound.  I also trimmed a small bit off the "horns" of each breasthook and gave the end of each a concave shape to match the other scuppers.  Then the inwale was attached to the inside of the breasthook "horns."  All this should be thought out before mounting the breasthooks or any part of the gunwales.

Hooper Williams - Brevard, NC    

   Hi guys, first post. Curt, I'd love to hear why you prefer flat breasthooks. 

Thanks!

   Cornelius..welcome to the forum...there is a lot of great talent represented by the builders here.

For me the flat breasthook was all that was available when I built my inner rails, but also it's purely a matter of looks, more like the classic "Chris Craft" look, well also, at one time I was planning on having a grab handle on that flat surface, but come to find out lifting the bow by the back of the flat breasthook works great, so no handle.  I also was going to use the same handle to tie off the bow but have found looping a line thru the inner rail slots works fine.  I also wanted to get a suction cup LED running light for the bow and wanted to use the flat breasthook to mount it on.

Good luck and let us know what you decide!

Curt