Hello Oscar,

I have never sailed he CLC Dory but have sailed many like her. Looking at the schematics for the sloop rig I can advise that I would probably stick with the design. The 68 total square feet of canvas should be more than plenty to drive this boat under the lightest of breezes. Even with the additional load weight of crew the displacement would not be enough to hinder performance greatly.  Some of the racing dinghies I have sailed in the 100 to 150 pound displacement class had no more than 76 square feet of sail and they could be a handful when the air picked up. If you don’t intend on putting hiking straps or a trapeze on it I would say your good to go with Mr. Harris' design.

Another consideration are the rigging and spars. . . Remember that when the wind increased from just five to ten knots the forces on your rigging increases by four times. Making a taller rig will take the total Center of Effort higher without the displacement or ballast to counter. More canvas will increase the total center of effort on the mast which may need a heavier build or a composite material.  . . Hope that helps.

Happy healing,

JP

Oscar,

I would agree with everything JP said.  More canvas is not always faster.  Proper trim and balance will give you the speed you are looking for.  Even if you put more canvas on the boat, you will need to shorten sail much sooner.  

One thing we had on larger keel boats is a light air main sail.  It is made of very thin and light fabric (typically nylon so it stretches) and has a much fuller cut.  This allows a "fat wing" shape which is what you are looking for in light air.  This sail does not have any more area, it just creates more lift.  It is limited to light air as in stronger beezes, over 5kts, it will stall and not perform well.

There are a few other light air sail options.  The good thing about boats the size the NE Dory is sails are much less expensive to experiment with than on larger boats.  This can be a very long conversation so I will try not to hijack the thread.

Nick

Oscar,

I would definitely agree with JP.  I've not sailed a Northeaster Dory.  However, I have sailed a number of Swampscott dories and though they are fun to sail they can be very tender boats in a breeze.

I would trust John Harris to know how much canvas the Northeaster Dory can safely carry.  I suspect that very few of us who build his designs ever really improve them with our individual "customizations".

No dory type is ever going to point too close to the wind.  If I were going to build a Northeaster, I would probably opt for the simpler lug rig so I don't have to work so hard to have a good time.

Cheers

Dick

Oscar, I built a dory last winter and sailed in in Maine this last summer.  I made the lug rig and am VERY glad I did.  John Harris likes to explain the value of the lug rig being easy to douse to convert to rowing while out on the water, and vice versa...to me that is a very important issue, even more so than a knot or two. There is a write up somewhere on the CLC web site on that topic.  Now then to your question about light air performance...yes, absolutely yes, she does scoot off in even very light air...the sloop may out perform the lug in a reach and also in the tack, but with some practice, I'm learning how to come about without stalling, and I found that moving the attachment point on the yards an inch or so aft helps.  My racing experience is in Catalina 22-30's but messed about with all sizes of dingy sailboats too.  I can tell you sailing the lug rig dory is the most fun I've had in any sailboat, light air or heavy.  It's funny...you are wondering about more sail area, and I'm glad I have two sets of reef points.  Consider that lug rig!!  Get the kick up rudder option...oh and one other thing on the lug rig..when going down wind you can let the sail go forward of the mast and position it so that you first get DDW load on the back of the sail but ease it out a little more and you get lift off the sail even going down wind....fun!  Cant do that on the sloop

   Curt

Boat Build Photo Journal: https://picasaweb.google.com/114717787929554738224/BuildingWoodenBoatCLCNortheasterDory?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKCBzczm_aKs2wE&feat=directlink

The only thing I have to add is the effect of hull shape. A small sail on a low-drag hull yields more speed than a large sail on a draggy hull. The NE Dory hull slides through the water at the slightest excuse. John's done a nice job of balancing hull weight, shape and sail area. Look at the rowing videos and see how little effort it takes to drive that boat through the water. It's the same for the sails.

My experience with the Dories has been at Okoumefest, not as a builder, but I can tell you that they are consistently one of the fastest ones out on the water when the air is light. They also handle a stiff breeze very well. I'd build that boat the way it's specified, use it for a while and then decide about changing the sail.

Have fun,

Laszlo

Thanks everyone for the valuable input. Well, I'm certainly not going to fix something that's not broken. I'm sticking to the plan.

Regarding lug v sloop rig: I'm going with the sloop. I understand the merits of the lug rig, but I don't plan on rowing much unless absolutely necessary. I definitely don't plan on "motorsailing." It expect it will be once up and once down. I don't mind the added labor.

See you on the water (soon I hope...)!

Oscar

I think what happens is that people look at a boat's overall length and compare that to mast height or sail area or whatever, and note that other 17-footers seem to have more sail area.  Problem is, "length" is not "size." I've been on a bit of a crusade to persuade people to consider other dimensions like a boat's weight or waterline length when drawing conclusions about performance.

Study books and magazines pre-dating the advent of mass-produced boats in the 1950's, and you'll find that it was much more common to cite a boat's displacement or waterline length rather than the overall length.  You could read a long, detailed analysis of some design and the overall length wouldn't be mentioned once.  Once boats started becoming commodities in the 50's and 60's, marketers started making a big deal out of overall length.  If you could say your boat was 17 feet and the competition was 16, it may be a meaningless performance distinction but it SOUNDS better.  

The point of this windy digression is that a stock Northeaster Dory weighs less than a Laser (130lbs) or a Sunfish (120lbs)! The sail area/displacement ratio is a MUCH more insightful measure of a boat's relative performance.  Both lug- and sloop-rigged Northeaster Dories have SA/D's that compare with many racing dinghies.  You can pile on more sail, sure, but the boat's going to become pretty twitchy.

I can't decide whether I prefer the sloop rig or the lug rig. The sloop is doubtless faster in light air, and upwind, but the differences are not pronounced.  If you started the race when you pull up to the waterside with the trailer, rather than at the starting line, the lug rig's quick setup might get it to the finish line well before the sloop.

   Somewhat off topic, perhaps. But. Has anyone rigged a NE Dory or other CLC boats with sectional aluminum or carbon fiber spars? If so, what was (were) the results?

   I finished my sloop NE dory last spring and spent the summer learning to sail it.  My experience is limited and I don't have a ton of sailing experience so take it with a grain of salt.  I love to sail at 5-10 knots and consider it a 'good' day to go sailing.  I have lots of fun sailing in every direction I can.  I sale on a lake exclusively.  

When the wind get's to 10-15 it is super fun but anything above that and I start to question my skill level versus the conditions.  Plus it totally sucks to trailer up when the wind is pushing up.  I've sailed in 20 knots and although very fun, I prefer the relaxing pace of 10-12 knots.

I think you will enjoy the performance very much.  It's just enough boat to get in trouble but also enough to keep you out of it.