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Hi John,
I have been an avid watcher of your Proa exploits and I am encouraged by the `back to basics’ approach of your latest Outrigger Junior as a step towards the attainable from the ‘Madness’ of a larger, more complex and expensive vessel. I am interested in boats like the OJ as they are easier to manage on land and in the water and lower cost and take less time to build. In fact all the same reasons you state as fundamentals for the Proa design over cats and tris. I know you have a busy existence so understand you may not have time to address these questions. However, if you do, I would appreciate your thoughts.
I am interested in why you moved away from the shunting Proa (Mbuli/Madness), to the OJ, a tacking Proa and ruminating that this was perhaps to avoid the complexity of rudders in trunks versus the more simple `hang the rudder over the stern’ approach?
Re-reading your reports on the development of Madness, with others I am also curious about using the Ama from the Madness design as a basis for a simple shunting day sailor: A barebones shunting beachcat if you will. Perhaps it could be a lighter, faster to build boat than Mbuli and could utilize some of the preexisting sails and parts from beachcats to keep the costs of the sails and hardware down?
I am interested to learn more about the pros and cons of the schooner rig versus the sloop rig in the Proa application. Having used one on the Mbuli and the other on the Madness I am curious as to your thoughts. I know nothing about the Lateen rig so I am interested in your choice here too.
The Schooner rig without jib(s) seems to have several advantages but you also mention that a sloop rig will go to windward better with the mast offset providing a larger slot between the jib and the main. Two masts on a schooner rig doesn’t offer this, of course you could add optional jibs at either end but this starts getting complex. The lower CE and centre of mass, using the shorter masts of the Schooner could be very attractive to those of us who dont enjoy stepping a 25+ft mast. You went away from this design after Mbuli hence the curiosity.
With best regards,
Beardy
3 replies:
RE: Proas and rigs
Good day! 6 questions about Madness: 1) Is there any significant additional load to the rear rudder when sailing without jib and should this be avoided in lots of wind? 2) If there are 2 roller furler jibs (1 at each end) what would you say about loss of performance resp. additional windage? 3) What cloth-weight is recommended if 2 rollerfurlers would be used? The diameter of the rolled up jibs should be as little as possible I assume. 4) As from what windspeed should one start to reef the main sail (with waterbalast in the AMA)? We have here during NE-monsun often 20+ knots. 5) Finally: Would it be possible to ship a 100% kit incl. mast, winches, clamps, seats etc. to the Philippines at reasonable costs (pallets or container)? We don't have here well equipped marineshops! 6) Are there meanwhile significant changes resp. recommendations regarding construction, layout etc? I'm realy intrigued (speed, easyness, uniqueness), even as a years long Wharram sailor!! :-) Thanks for the reply.
RE: Proas and rigs (Mbuli)
Hi John (and all CLC),
I have three questions about Mbuli:
I'm guessing the cost guestimate in the plan description is a bit stale. Could you suggest a current build cost estimate?
What is the area of each sail? I wonder if it would work to use Laser repro spars and sails (probably with zippers sewn into the luff sleeves. I did this on a similar sized schooner proa that I built, and I was happy with the setup. Would it work on Mbuli?
Any suggestions for a small 'sidecar' cockpit and lee-pod or lee floatation?
Thanks,
Curtis
RE: Proas and rigs
» Submitted by Wave Dancer - Sat, 11/28/15 » 2:36 AM
Hi, I'm not a Proa owner, but had for many years a Wharram 33ft catamaran in Thailand. One of my concerns about the shunting method is, that the boat will be for a while broadside to the waves, what could be disastrous, if the waves reach a certain hight and steepness. This is why I consider the Hawaiian tacking rig as the more save one. I will choose again a small catamaran design to build in the Philipppines due to the better payload, cabin options among others. But as from the speed performance side, the shunting proa, in particular the "Madness", is the way to go. If CLC should ever design a 27/28 ft. tacking proa like the Junior, but with the option for a cabin sleeping 2 for extended island raiding and exploring archipellagoes, I'd go for it! The assembling and with ropes is genious, I used it on my boat as well. Much better than fixed joints. The schooner rig I'd recommend for a cruising trimaran or mono, but not for a fast shunting boat, you'd loose a lot of the areodynamic advantages. May be it could look different with wingsails. Cheers from the Philippines