Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I've decided on building a Peeler and have done some thinking about how I'll  power it. Originally I thought about a small outboard but have changed my mind. All I want to do with this boat it glide quietly around the bays enjoying the ride and scenery.  I'm thinking of going Green and using a Minnkota E-Drive for primary power. The E-Drive delivers quite a bit of power and will push a pontoon boat 6 knots. The unit bolts on the transom and has some nice options included. It offers power Tilt, shifting, throttle, battery gauges and key lock all at the helm. They offer tiller or remote, I would go with the remote and build a small console with wheel. Its 48 volt so 4 -12v batteries. I thought I would put them under the cross forward section of the mid seat or more forward if needed for balance in a battery case with a AC port for charging.

I could sit my old body down at the helm and really do almost every thing from there. The big thing for me would be the power tilt for raising and lowering the motor from a sit down helm seat. I would like the wheel to be on center about 36 - 40 inches from the transom. I ran this by CLC recently but haven't heard anything yet. Just looking for opinions on this and would it work???  Thanks, Ken.


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RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Ken,

Would an electric drive on the Peeler work? Sure.

Would it work well? Not so shure. Most of the electric powered craft I've seen have a much different hull design than the Peeler. My favorite skiff type electric hull is by Doug Hylan and is called the Hird Island Skiff.

As you can see the hull shape is quite different than the Peeler. It has a 4 ft beam vs a 6+ beam on the Peeler. The aft section has a rise that lifts the transom out of the water reducing the wake and creating a smooth flow of water across the hull. The Peeler has a very wide transom and will drag its transom through turbulent water. The Hird Island Skiff carries it's batteries where you will carry them on your Peeler -mid boat - that is a plus for the Peeler - it will carry 4 or more batteries under the middle thwart easily. The Peeler is designed for gas outboard motors and any other power will be a compromise. I understand that the Peeler kit is very appealing if you have never built a boat from scratch before and my experience with it couldn't be better. However, the Hird Island Skiff or several other easily built electric skiff hulls (try Selway-Fisher) would not be a significant challenge beyond the Peeler. Most come with full sized plans and will show you exactly how to lay out and cut the parts from the plywood. Believe me, the endless sanding and prep of epoxy, primer and paint coats account for 60%+ of the time you will spend on any stitch and glue boat and is the same for kit or self built boat.

That said, The Peeler might just work with an electric drive at displacement speeds. The really neat thing about your plan for using the e drive is that nothing would be cast in stone - you can take the electric drive off anytime and install a gas outboard. I think the Peeler would look very sharp with a fringed flat top canopy while crusing along at hull speed. It would be a very comfortable boat for a sizable crew to get out on the water for a picnic with. If you go into the plan with knowledge of it's limitations I think the Peeler is still workable. As I told John Harris when I bought the beta kit, the Peeler is a boat for dreams. Good Luck

PS I have the bottom almost done and will be turning her back over to to paint the seats shortly. Haven't been able to work full time on her lately.

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Thanks Robert. John sent me a drawing of the Peeler console option. After seeing it and reading his response and yours,,, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and should go with an outboard as originally planned. I'm glad your project is coming along ok. Thanks, Ken.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Klitz, I, too, have been over and over electric boat plans, but shipping more than one battery forces me to leave one grandkid stranded for every 12V battery unit - unacceptable tradeoff.

 

I opted for 2HP Honda BF2D 4Cycle air-cooled. Not silent, but not heavy either. I've mod'ed the transom of my Northeaster Dory to withstand the inevitable contact with sandbars and cypress knees. Picture shows extent of change.

bonne chance, DennyNortheaster Dory 1inch oak transom

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Denny

Any report on how your modification is working for you?

I would think the little Honda would sit too high and perhaps

be top heavy? I would appreciate any photos of the dory with

the outboard mounted or in actual use. I'm thinking of getting

the Northeaster soon and have been thinking of various ways to

mount an outboard - my outboard well ideas don't seen workable.

Anyone else mounted an auxilary engine (Gas or electric) on the NE Dory?

 

 

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Robert, yesterday (27Nov) the MS Dept of Wildlife & Fisheries inspected the boat and applied a Hull Identification Number. Now I am legal to power the boat.

I will try to get a photo of the engine mounted over the next three days. When I get the boat launched and under power, I'll take stills and video, post 'em up. Need to know by GPS what speed the engine pushes the dory. I estimate six knots but the low drag long wetted bottom may yield a surprise.

I have no trepidation about balance of the engine; the BF2D Honda is as light as a feather, and the lower unit is the long version so that the prop is right at the rear skag. If I'm hunting or birding, I'll row, but the engine is essential in the swamps - oars and trees don't mix well.

Answers coming Real Soon Now (computer programmer talk for any time in the next six months).

Denny

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Hi Klitz,

Have you looked into a Torgeedo electric.  It looks to be a hybreed minnkoto.

Here's the site, http://www.torqeedo.com/us/electric-outboards/cruise-t-tiller-controlled-dinghies-motor-boats-sailboats-up-to-4-tons

There's a guy here who zips arround a local lake using one of these in a 12 ft jon boat.

Also, FYI talked to CLC today and the manuals should be shipped today or tomorrow.

As for power, for me it'll be a 9.9 merc (maybe electric start).

Robert, How many boats have you built??

Ron

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I got the wattage info from Minnkota comparing it to Torqueedo,, it doesn't add up. Torqueedo publishes a hp  of 5 to 9 hp and Minnkota says their e- drive is equal to 2 hp but has more wattage than the Torqueedo. Something stinks here!! I emailed torqueedo to explain but no response.

If anyone knows the answer please reply.  Thanks, Klitz.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Ronray asked:"Robert, How many boats have you built??" The first boat I helped build was an unlimited Hydroplane named Miss Liberty sometime in the early 1960's. She was all plywood and had a 1500hp Allison airplane engine. I put in 300 hours stolen from my freshman college studies working on her along with several of my friends. I learned a tremendous amount about plywood, proper gluing and stressed skin construction from her. Another friend's father was a boatbuilder from Sandusky Ohio who had grown up running his family owned boat shop. He taught me how to sail and let me help on his boat projects. I mostly owned and sailed fiberglass boats until Chris Kulczycki began publishing plans for his wooden kayak's. I build his Cape Charles 18ft kayak which was my first stitch and glue boat. He was the original founder of CLC Boats I believe. Must have been in the 1980's. Since then I have mostly worked on and built kayaks. The Peeler is my first kit boat and the biggest skiff I have built. I would like to build a double ended sharpie after the Peeler and have been looking at Ross Lillistones 30ft Egret design while also trying to encourage John Harris to hurry up with his Pocket Change design. I miss sailing lately though at 70 I'm not going to hike out off the gunnels anymore. Hope to see your NE Dory pictures soon. She is a fine looking craft.

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Hi Robert. I just read your boatbuilding past, its quite impressive. I've only built one small skiff years ago. Most of my experience is building iceboats.  I have a favor to ask. At your convenience, would you measure the Peeler front edge heigth of the mid cross seat (floor to sitting) I'm planning battery storage for my upcoming project. Thanks so much.  Ken

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Robert,

Sounds like you've had a lifetime of wooden boat joy.  I've also been around wood boats since I was a small kid in the late 50's.  My dad had a 14' Thomson lapstrake that I took over in my teenage years.  Wish I still had it....

Klitz,. 

Regarding the difference in HP rating between E-Drive and Torqeedo.

My guess is, that it has to do with how watts are processed once in the unit or efficiency of the unit to convert the DC power to thrust.

Will the E-Drive 20" shaft Lent be long enough for the peeler?

On the other hand the Torqeedo guys could be misrepresenting their product.  Good that you challenged them.

Ron

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I took a look at the Cruise-T and E-Drive sites. 

The Cruise-T has two models, the 2.0 listed at 1,120 W propulsion power and the 4.0 at 2,240 W.  1 horsepower equals 746 watts, so by my calculations the 2.0 develops 1.5 HP and the 4.0 develops 3 HP.  Both models draw considerably more power off the battery, 2,000 and 4,000 watts respectively, due to inefficiency of electric motors (which are still much more efficient than gasoline engines.

I looked at several websites for the E-Drive (including Minnkota's own) and could find no specifications on the power draw.  They do claim their motor develops 2 HP, so if true it would fall somewhere between the Cruise-T 2.0 and Cruise-T 4.0. 

At any rate, judging by the specifications I was able to find, it does look like Torqeedo is misrepresenting their products in a way, because they are comparing them to petrol engines that develop 5 and 8 HP of thrust.  This gets sticky--what exactly do they mean by "thrust?"  Do they mean that a 1.5 HP Cruise-T can keep up with a 5 HP gasoline outboard?  Seems doubtful.

All that being said, we can be sure that the Cruise-T 3.0 is 1.5HP, the 4.0 is 3 HP and the E-Drive is 2 HP (probably).  So that means you can make your decision based on the HP you need, price, features, etc.  Things that are much easier to compare.

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Ken,

The floor to mid seat height is 13"

I've sat on it quite a bit while sanding the interior and do not find it particularly low. You could add a clamp on seat with a back to make it a little higher and comfortable.

Here is a design that was kicked around for a Peeler Console. It would be strattled like a Ski-Do and probably could be give a raised seat bottom over the installed mid seat.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Thanks Robert. Will you be posting any more photos of your Peeler? I think they are really appreciated by everyone.  Ken.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

ronray:   Minnkota said the 20" e drive shaft should work fine with the Peeler which requires a 20" longshaft outboard. I will size it all up when I get that far. If it were too short, I would install a motor mount to the outside of the transom rather than cutting the notch deeper. Ken

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Ken,

Here is what I have been doing this week - finishing up my wales. It takes about 36 clamps to clamp each one on after epoxying. I only have 37 clamps so each wale is an all day affair. I had to plane off all my pre-coating of epoxy on each one's edge to get them all level. Now I have to re-coat them with epoxy before varnishing them. The last 5th of my build keeps stretching out longer and longer. I'm also limited time wise lately so some of you speedy Peeler builders may beat me to splash down. I was thinking at one time of just spraying on Rino-Lining stuff on the inside and wish I had. It's hard to get excited about varnishing and sanding - sanding and varnishing and painting. Sooner or later it will be finished.

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Your wales look great, I'm sure it's alot of work to say the least. Do you have an extra thickness on the outer wale or is it split in half for bending? Keep up the good work.  Ken.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Robert,

The wales look great. One can tell you love perfection.  What size do the clamps need to be?

Looks like they need to open 6".  I've only got a few clamps, so it will likely be my biggest investment.  Any suggestions on the best low price clamps?

I was thinking of painting the inside floor with KiwiGrip anti-slip marine deck coating.

It's pricey but looks like it might be a good one.  Any other suggestions for a putting down a non-slip surface?

Ron

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I thought about floor grates but the xtra weight and lower seating height,, may use clc self adhesive flooring they sell for several designs or in a roll. They use it for the paddle boards. It seems to be very permanent and can be cut to any shape.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

"Do you have an extra thickness on the outer wale or is it split in half for bending?"

The Peeler comes with two 1/2" thick rails/outer wales. The inner gunwales (one spacer and one solid gunwale) are also included. The hull also has a 3/8th ply wale glued to the 3/8 ply hull side. So...the photo shows (L to R) two 1/2' rail laminations  two 3/8th plywwod hull layers a 1/2" spacer and the 1/2" inner gunwale. They are very easy to apply as long as you have enough clamps. I used my 4" Bessy F Clamps which I bought a few at a time at Lowes long ago when they were 2.99. They now need cleaning with a heat gun and bronze brush to remove the epoxy goo.

"I was thinking of painting the inside floor with KiwiGrip anti-slip marine deck coating. It's pricey but looks like it might be a good one.  Any other suggestions for a putting down a non-slip surface?" - "I thought about floor grates but the xtra weight and lower seating height,, may use clc self adhesive flooring they sell for several designs or in a roll."

I was going to make grates out of some nice Spanish Cedar I have on hand - but since my build has taken so long I may opt for some non-skid additive to the floor paint I use. I was hoping John Harris would be offer his KiwiGrip precut for the Peeler. I also hope John offers a boat cover for the Peeler soon.

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Thanks Robert. The angle of your photo made the wales look much thicker than they are. It sounds like you are spending many hours on this project and learning more and more each step as you go. You will be a primary source of information for the Peeler. Yours must be the 3rd Peeler? John said the made 2 initially.

John told me where the center of buoyancy is for the Peeler (Just behind the center cross seat). I made a scale model of sorts and have been playing with different load arrangements. The batteries and myself are the movable ballast.

I appreciate all your help.  Ken

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Robert,

You said 32 clamp were required, was that for just one side of the wales or for doing both sides at the same time?  The cheapest 4” clamps I’ve found are around $8/each.  I have 4 clamps now, so that’s about $225 for the 28 additional clamps I’d need.  Is there any other way of doing the wales without having to buy so many clamps?

Ron

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Hi Ron. I'm not sure how many clamps I have that will work but I have bought quite a few at Walmart and Menards,, they come in a bag of various sizes. I would think at least 2 sizes would work. Also I have a bunch of C clamps but would need to use protective blocks so they save the cedar underneath. Maybe even the Dollar Store has spring clamps. Wait and see what Robert says,,, he has already done it.  Good luck, Ken....still waiting for my building manual.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Here is Lowe's price on my clamps now. If you look they sometimes have them at a lower price in the store.

http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/091162/091162013007lg.jpg

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Sorry about that link. Try this one.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_153182-52800-LM2.004_0__?productId=1215119

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I got most of my clamps from Harbor Freight.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

“Jcole” Thanks for the Harbor Freight tip.  They have a 6” for 2.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-bar-clamp-96210.html

We have a HFT store next town over that stocks these.  I’m going to take the wife on an outing to check them out today.

 

Ken,

As of yesterdays mail, I still haven’t received my manual but it shows as having been shipped. 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Robert, did you use spring clamps that you squeeze to open or the threaded like Harbor freight has?

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I have never used spring clamps so don't know if they would clamp the gunnels on. I think they would be difficult to get the reqired pressure for good epoxy squeeze out from. The rails and wales took more pressure to lay properly than I expected and also needed more pressure closely spaced than I thought (requiring lots of clamps). I think Ron has the right idea. You will not need so many clamps until the gunnels (probably 3 or 4 months if you are a faster worker than me) so you might find some you like and buy a few each week until then.  Clamps don't seem so expensive to me now after having to buy 6 quarts of System Three Primer (2) Orcas White (2) red (1) and buff (1) Each quart is about $50 from Jamestown Distributers. As usual with my projects one quart is always a tiny bit shy of what's needed to do the job correctly.

You could stuff everyone's stockings with clamps then kind of borrow them. Just saying. You might suggest using strings of bar clamps for holiday decorations. And go around singing "Deck the halls with lots of bar clamps fah la la" etc.

 

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

Got my Peeler book today. It looks like we'll be needing bar clamps. After the spaced inwale is installed a wale strake and two layers of 1/2 in. stock make up the out wale. I don't think the HFT or Lowes spring clamps will open that far. I have no experiance with it but maybe the clamps made from PVC pipe might work.

RE: Peeler primary electric propulsion opinion

I've got some of the 12 inch bar clamps and if the 6 inch work, they will be cheaper. I think some of my "C" clamps will work also. Like CLC says,, you can never have too many clamps. Hope my building manual shows up this week, I can hardly wait. It will be fun to follow the first kits as they are built. Good luck to all.  Ken

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