Perimeter line

I have been unsucessfully trying to find a closeup picture of a kayak showing the detail path of a perimeter line. I'm planning to have it loop through the bow toggle hole and crisscross over the bow to the tabs holding the bungies. I don't know whether I need to include loops on the hatch holddowns as well for the perimeter line or pass it under these straps.

Any suggestions?


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RE: Perimeter line

You can run a perimeter line any way you want of course, but photos of how I rigged mine are on this site (kind of 2/3 of the way down the page - I've never figured out how to post photos on this forum, sorry about having the link - you can click on the photos on the link and then zoom in).

http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3517&start=100

On the stern, I did a simple line from the back of the bungee array behind the cockpit through the stern toggle and back to the bungees.  On the bow you could do the same, but I borrowed the layout from a friend's kayak that I liked.  I installed 2 small cleats on the cockpit side of the forward bungee array.  I tied off the forward perimter line to the front toggle line, then ran it back and looped it around one of the cleats, back forward and through the front toggle line, and then tied a loop in the end that is hooked over the cleat near the cockpit on the other side.  I adjusted the tension on the line so that it stays on both cleats (it's not tied onto the cleats, just looped around them) This results in a perimter line as well as an emergency tow line or it can be used to tie off the kayak to a dock or log, etc (just release the line from the cleats and you've got the tow line/tie off line that is attached to the front of the boat). 

I've seen lots of other layouts that incorporate with additional deck fastenings, but I was going for simple and trying to minimize the number of holes I had to drill in the deck for fittings. 

RE: Perimeter line

I just make a line very similar to KathyD's.  I make a loop (fore and aft) across the deck near the cockpit, out to the stems and back.  Simple, clean, and effective.

FrankP

RE: Perimeter line

I had deck lines running from the bow toggle hole, crossing and all the way back to the first of the front deck bungie loops.  Looked and worked great until I dumped in the hudson dodging a fast ferry.  During assisted rescue I discovered that for the person pulling my kayak up onto his front deck to drain it, the ropes (not elastic) still stretched and slipped enough to make his task much more dificult.  I strongly recommend an attachment point half way back each side for both front and back decklines.

Not as pretty but safer.   Ed

RE: Perimeter line

Hey Ed, I've had to dodge those ferries too. Those %$%&^ don't like to slow down till they hit the dock. Dan

RE: Perimeter line

http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/fitting_out/deck_rigging.html

 

This from CLC's site.  Shows attachment 1/2 way back the front deck.

 

Ed

RE: Perimeter line

IHi Dan.  Was in a group of 50 doing a circumnavigation of manhatten.  the ## boat cut right across the middle of the group. There is no way he could avoid seeing us.  Did not seem to care.  He could have waited 5 minutes and we would have been past the slip. 

At least I got to cool off.  It was a hot August day.

 

Ed

RE: Perimeter line

Thank you all for the input. I have decided to run the line through loops in the hatch straps as well as the bungie straps. If necessary, I will put an additional loop between the bow and the forward hatch. My rigging is ready on the outside chance that I will have some dry weather soon to put on the finishes. :)

RE: Perimeter line

Here's the rigging on my SW17

2011-08-18_17-02-27_453.jpg

RE: Perimeter line

And my wife's

2011-08-18_17-03-06_613.jpg

RE: Perimeter line

hmmm all of a sudden I'm having issues inserting pictures with the widget. I can 'command v' only, but the size is wrong.

Ed, Are you north of Yonkers? If so, we should go for a paddle sometime

RE: Perimeter line

Hi Dan,

Yes.  Live in Tarrytown, contact me at  edwardbrubaker    using google mail.

Was out on the Hudson last night. Beautiful.

Ed

 

RE: Perimeter line

If you look at picture No. 12 in the Mill Creek 16.5 Main Gallery on this web site you can see how I ran my lines on my MC.  Did a similar setup on my Shearwater 17.  The lines run all around the perimeter of the boat and then tie off in a transverse run just aft of the cockpit.  My loops are closer together than what I have seen discussed here.  Just checked the Shearwater and they are spaced about 15".

Remember these lines serve two functions.  1. They give you something to grab so your boat does not drift away from you in the wind and/or current while you are taking a dip and 2. they are a place to wedge your paddle, with a paddle float on the other end, during either an assisted or self rescue.  If they have to much slack they will not work in the second case.

So, what ever you do, be sure the lines will do the job required of them.  Some kayak clubs will not let you paddle with them unless you are set up with perimeter lines.

Happy outfitting.

Paul

RE: Perimeter line

test...

RE: Perimeter line

Deck rigging

Please ignore plastic boat at bottom 

RE: Perimeter line

Dan, 

LOL, not too difficult to ignore with those 2 beautiful boats above.

My line setup is all ready for installation if I ever get the hull paint squared away. After 3 coats, I just can't get it to even out using CLC's painting tips. I refuse to continue until I get this to look sprayed on.

Have you had any experience with Brightsides?

RE: Perimeter line

Mike,

No experience with Brightsides, sorry.

The tops of our boats look nice (but actually more scratched that you can see) and the bottoms are very scratched. I've given up on the showroom finish concept. I'll resand the bottoms and add a few more coats of varnish for next season this winter.

I actually have a rigging question myself...

On my SW17 I used the strapping loops screwed into the shear clamp. On my wife's I used Eric's fush fittings. With those I am finding they do hold water (unless upside down on my storage rack) and the varnish and epoxy on the dowel does not seem to be holding up well. I will need to remove the rigging and re coat them this winter.

On the Auk 14 I am working on I want to install perimeter lines bow and stern. I'm concidering the 'slit with strap loop from the inside' method, tho the bow will most likely have no hatch. I'm concerned about installation, maintenance and water tightness. I will be using minicell bulkheads.

Any thoughts, comments?

Dan 

RE: Perimeter line

I have the "slit with strap loop from the inside" on my Shearwater 14 and I like it.  It was a little bit of a pain to do, primarily because you have to drill/dremel the hole, epoxy coat, re-drill, but you have to do that with any method I guess.  Some people have made a nice little jig to cut the holes with their dremel, but I used a series of drilled holes and a file to make the slits. A dremel would be cleaner and quicker. 

I have hatches so could reach most of them OK.  There are many posts on different forums on how to do it.  Joe Greenley of Redfish Kayak has some really elegent ones made of just webbing, but I used small pieces of plywoodt that I attatched to the webbing loops to spread out the stress on the deck; others have used dowels.  If you use a dowel or Joe's method you will want to install an extra patch of fiberglass cloth at each strap location on the inside of the deck to take up the stress. Some type of marine sealant is needed to minimize leaks when you do the final install.  

Obviously pre-planning the locations and getting the slits done before mating the hull and deck will make much of this easier; then it would just be the the final installation of the straps that needs to be done in the hard to reach areas.  I seem to recall that I threaded a wire down through the hole (fron the top of the deck), hooked it around the loop (pre-loaded with sealant) and pulled it up through the hole in the locations that were hard to reach.  I used a clamp at the base of the loop once it was pulled through the hole to hold it in place while the sealant dried.  

Maintenance - you will want to remove these when you refinish the boat.  I used System 3 WR-LPU and haven't had to refinish yet.  

 

RE: Perimeter line

Dan,

I'm kind of surprised about your fittings. In what way are they not holding up? I wouldn't think that holding water only while you're paddling would not be a problem. This might be a good queston for Eric to see what his experience is.

Judging by Kathy's description, it sounds like a lot of work. Personally, I prefer as few holes as possible in my boat, even my foot braces are epoxied to the inside with no holes thru the hull. I'd be interested in how the minicell bulkheads work. I had considered them for a future project.

Mike 

 

RE: Perimeter line

Mike,

I'm noticing some flaking of the epoxy/varnish on the dowels. I suspect I did not coat them properly.

On the Auk I would use the basic screwed in strapping loop but there is no shearclamp to screw into. I'm thinking of doing it like this..

 

RE: Perimeter line

What Dan just posted is exactly what I did.  I got to use my Dad's scroll saw for the first time to cut the plywood tabs - it was actually lots of fun! 

RE: Perimeter line

OK Dan, I having a senior moment. How exactly do these get attached to the hull? Epoxied to the top of the deck or do the straps come thru the deck from below? How do you make the slots in the tabs perfectly sized to hold the webbing?

RE: Perimeter line

My friend John who made those passes them up from under the deck and seals them to the underside with silicone sealer. I'm not sure how he cuts the slots. His website is here and has lots of good pictures and tips...

http://www.outdoorplace.org/paddling/

 hmmm...the insert link widget is not working for me 

RE: Perimeter line

Has anyone tried this method of making soft pad eyes?

http://www.redfishkayak.com/softpadeyes.htm

I'm wondering how strong they are with just the melted strap flange.

Dan 

RE: Perimeter line

Yes and they're plenty strong if properly made. I have them on two boats and would use them again. SEEYA Jack

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